MGExp

MG Motorsports Forum

Cool 1275 oil pan w/ windage trays/ heads up

Moss Motors
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

1275nme Silver Member Ron Hermanson
CA, USA   USA
1968 MG Midget "The Red Car"
Hi all,

I recently got the oil pan for my 1275 Midget that I ordered from Dave Hubbard engineering. What a work of art! Dave has the reputation for doing things the right way and he did a really cool job on my oil pan. I wanted to protect my engine during corning and I asked for a pan that could be cleaned. Dave made it happen. This is a stock pan with the Windage doors and tray. I wanted to keep it as close to vintage as possible and with the added insurance of reliability,that is what I got. I can send pictures of if any one wants to see what it looks like.

Dave posts on this site and you should be able to contact him for more info.

Thanks again Dave,


Ron Hermanson

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
AmishIndy Avatar
AmishIndy Seth Jones
Glendale Heights, IL, USA   USA
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire"
2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"
In reply to # 2863835 by 1275nme Hi all,

I recently got the oil pan for my 1275 Midget that I ordered from Dave Hubbard engineering. What a work of art! Dave has the reputation for doing things the right way and he did a really cool job on my oil pan. I wanted to protect my engine during corning and I asked for a pan that could be cleaned. Dave made it happen. This is a stock pan with the Windage doors and tray. I wanted to keep it as close to vintage as possible and with the added insurance of reliability,that is what I got. I can send pictures of if any one wants to see what it looks like.

Dave posts on this site and you should be able to contact him for more info.

Thanks again Dave,


Ron Hermanson

yes please post pictures.



Seth Jones

1971 MG Midget

www.SpridgetGuru.com

1275nme Silver Member Ron Hermanson
CA, USA   USA
1968 MG Midget "The Red Car"
OK, I will do my best, ASAP,

I think you will really like it.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
1275nme Silver Member Ron Hermanson
CA, USA   USA
1968 MG Midget "The Red Car"
Here are three pictures of the oil pan . You can see it open and covered and that it looks stock on the engine.


Attachments:
DSC02532.JPG 1275 oil pan.JPG    38.6 KB
DSC02532.JPG 1275 oil pan.JPG

DSC02533.JPG 1275 oil pan.JPG    37.7 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
DSC02533.JPG oil pan 1275.JPG    37.7 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
DSC02537.JPG 1275 oil pan.JPG    34 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
fast-MG.com Avatar
fast-MG.com Gold Member Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
I have a question for purpose of discussion, not critique. How does a pan baffle which does not seal around it's edges prevent oil from surging away from the pickup in hard corners? Hot oil is the consistency of kerosene and would flow nearly unrestrained in a 1+G corner.confused smiley


Member Services:
Dave Headley, dba FAB-TEK offers full service race car parts and preperation for MGB & MGA race cars, SCCA and Vintage. Dave is a mechanical engineer and has raced MGBs since 1963.
BlueMax1 Avatar
BlueMax1 A G
?, ?, USA   USA
Courious on how the oil pickup tube will attach to block?

1275nme Silver Member Ron Hermanson
CA, USA   USA
1968 MG Midget "The Red Car"
Thanks for the question, Sorry, for not sending the photo that shows what the pan looks like under the tray

.
The image in the photo is of the tray looking down. As stock pan is deeper than what you see in the picture When the crank spins oil will be flying all over the place and then drips onto the tray and then drains to the sides or ends and down into the bottom of the pan. where there are gates or baffles that stop the oil from moving away from the pick up. The oil has to go some where and unlike a stock pan without baffles the oil is collected under the tray and is held back from surging by gates or doors that open and close on hinge pins as you corner. When you brake hard the oil wants to surge forward and the gate will close and keep the oil contained in the lowest part of the pan where the pick up can collect it and is pumped back up into the engine and the cycle starts over again, this saves the motor from being starved from the lack of oil during the corning and braking.

I will try to send two more photos, one showing the pan attached to the engine the engine will be up side down in the photo and you can see some weld spots on the bottom of the pan. Otherwise it looks like a stock pan. The next photo will show what it looks like when the tray is removed,it shows the baffles or doors under the tray. The idea for this pan was, to be able to clean it out ,unlike most sump type pans which are welded shout and anything the drops down under the tray is stuck there forever.

The pick up tube in the picture is sealed with an o ring, the tube is machined to fit up tight and seals the system. This attaches to the bottom of the engine where the stock pickup tube goes. The difference is that it fits up tight and is bolted to the tray so it can't move and the stock mounting bolts are not used in this application.

erickz Avatar
erickz Erick Zanner
Columbus, OH, USA   USA
1973 MG Midget "Midge"
1973 MG Midget MkII "Midge"
I need to work on my safety wiring technique.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
1275nme Silver Member Ron Hermanson
CA, USA   USA
1968 MG Midget "The Red Car"
Dave Hubbard is a master of it. When I saw the safety wiring is said the same thing Wow! Quality counts.

1275nme Silver Member Ron Hermanson
CA, USA   USA
1968 MG Midget "The Red Car"
OK, These are the other photos that I missed sending, Oil pan upside down view and the gates or doors that are under the tray.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

Attachments:
DSC02347.JPG oil pan 1275.JPG    34.6 KB
DSC02347.JPG oil pan 1275.JPG

1275 oil pan.JPG    34.8 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum Member Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 2864628 by erickz I need to work on my safety wiring technique.


Nah, just use loctite smiling smiley


Ron, the fabrication quality of that pan looks incredible, very well executed. I probably would have designed it a little differently though, like Dave mentioned, tried to get the windage tray to seal to the edges of the oil pan, then put some sort of drainage set hole/louver in the windage tray itself.


I'll post some pics of Winner Circle Super comp oil, I used these many times and they worked great, WC no longer makes them, but Huffaker does now. WhenI first bought a WC super comp oil pan it as maybe $400, but the guys who made has now retired and WC had to get other folks to make them and the labor was much higher and they rose in price to about $650, finally Dave worked a deal with Joe for him to take over building these pans, and from what I get they build them in house and they are very labor intensive and now cost $895. Almost all A series Spridget oil pans, stock and other wise hang slightly lower than the front crossmember, this one does maybe by a 1/2", not a problem if you stay on the black stuff smiling smiley ,and even then it would have to one hellva ride to damage it.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Website: www.acmespeedshop.com
hapwaldrop@acmespeedshop.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-12-04 07:16 AM by Speedracer.


Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Free Tech Advice - VTO alloy wheels for British Sport Cars, and others

Attachments:
wcscpan-1.JPG    43.8 KB
wcscpan-1.JPG

wcscpan-2.JPG    37.2 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
wcscpan-3.JPG    43.9 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
wcscpan-4.JPG    31.3 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
wcscpan-6.JPG    53.7 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
1275nme Silver Member Ron Hermanson
CA, USA   USA
1968 MG Midget "The Red Car"
Thanks Hap for the photos,

I see you mean about the louvers on the tray, I think the outside edge space is open for drainage to get the oil back into the bottom of the pan.

The price on this one was a lot lower than the Huffaker unit.

I wonder how you can to tell just how much leakage you have with this style of baffle it sure beats and open pan with no way to stop the surge. I am not an engineer so I have to trust the knowledge and years of experience that it took to put this oil pan together. All of the tests done on it showed no problems with the design.

twentyover Avatar
twentyover Greg Fast
Lives in SoCal, Resides in the Burbs of Detroit MI, USA   USA
In reply to # 2865361 by 1275nme ....

I wonder how you can to tell just how much leakage you have with this style of baffle it sure beats and open pan with no way to stop the surge. I am not an engineer so I have to trust the knowledge and years of experience that it took to put this oil pan together. All of the tests done on it showed no problems with the design.

Curious- what tests have been done? Bonafide question, not looking to pick a fight. I see how it would work if the front was sealed

1275nme Silver Member Ron Hermanson
CA, USA   USA
1968 MG Midget "The Red Car"
I talked to Dave Hubbard and asked some questions about the oil pan.. He made it. OK, to answer your question . The tests were done on several race cars with no problems. If you want to know who's race cars you would have to talk to Dave. My guess would be some of the Speed well Cars and other high quality racing Midgets and Sprites. The reason the tray does not have Louvers is because when the oil drops down onto it creates a mist of oil that continues to lube the bearings and them flows down to the pick up tube where the oil should go at the bottom of the pan and is contained in the boxed area with the doors.

This oil pan will protect the engine and was intended to be an alternative to the ones that are boxed in at the bottom. It serves the same purpose using a stock pan that didn't need to be cut down. In the early days before the Modified cars, guys just added a section to the bottom of the pan to add more oil. This is a stock size pan with baffles that works well for vintage race cars while keeping the vintage look. I don't know what else I can say about it, It is just a cool oil pan and as Hap said it is well made, That's what I wanted and that's what I got.

Gofanu Avatar
Gofanu Fletcher Millmore
Titusville PA, USA   USA
Beautiful as it is, I would not make one like this.
The pickup box is really nice, but the rest of it lets far too much oil go where it is useless.
When I was fooling with them, I filled the pan with water and watched what happened when I shook or tilted it.
Hot oil is not much thicker than water.
In a long turn, or a long hard stop, I expect the pickup box would soon be empty.
Does anyone have any idea of flow rates from the pump? And how long it takes to get through a long sweeping turn?
In a 1g turn, there is still 1g downwards, so the oil level surface would be at 45degrees.
Anything on race tires should be pulling more than 1g in a turn, and braking should be even higher - which will make the oil level more vertical.
Remember that once you apply a horizontal force, the trap doors on the near (to the bulk of the oil)(outer, in a turn) side will close, so no oil will be coming from there.
It will be worse in a LH turn, as the crank is throwing the oil against the RH side of the block/pan already.
So, I also think Hap's jewelry has the louvers the wrong way round. Should be sticking up and open to the left side.
Fill it with the fill capacity of water and tilt the pan sideways or frontwards and watch where the water flows/is.

Bill Jenkins built oil pans with windows, so he could see (photograph) what was happening. Turns out that the oil is wrapped around the crank like a big rope, being churned and heated by power you might want for other purposes. And, he found that solid windage trays caused the oil to bounce right back up into the crank to eat more power and get hotter. From that came crank scrapers and windage trays designed to break up the oil, catch it, and get it down below the tray. He got more power, less oil temp, and most interestingly, much less debris embedded in piston skirts and the like.

I finally figured out how to make holes that flow about 10x better in one direction than the other, and made tools to do it. Used that in my windage trays.

FRM

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

To add your reply, or post your own questions




Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster