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Bugeye Turbo project

Moss Motors
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autocomman mark w
lost angy, USA   USA
Well since I dont wanna spend bookoo bucks to build a 1380, and I want 100hp at the wheels, and the factory got 95 estimated from the MG metro turbo, it was a no brainer to me. So I got the manifolds, turbo, plenum and carb shipped used from Europe, went through the old garret T3, and went to bolt it on tonight to check fitment. Well...it was designed for a mini basically, so there are a few issues.

First and most obvious, it sits on the steering shaft, so much so its just in the way and I cant even bolt it on.
Issue 2 is the intake manifold has been completely trashed. The ports are D shaped and the mounting flanges have been ground down.
3rd is the waste gate actuator hits the lower hose.
4th and finally the intake for the compressor is just under the front block plate that holds the engine to the car haha. Thats easily remedied with a die grinder and a carbide bit

2, 3 and 4 I can deal with, but the steering shaft I dont want to remake if I dont have to. So I have a few other turbo options im gonna explore first. Ill get a new standard single HIF44 intake manifold and go from there, pics and what not of the upgrade will be posted of course.

This will be kept at a low boost level for now, as its for stock 4 ring pistons till will explode if I get too crazy, a set of upgrades is on the list. But this way I can work the bugs out and still have a couple lbs of boost to play with.



























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S1 Elan Kurt. Appley
Akron, Ia., USA   USA
It's been done by a fellow in our club. Believe he located the turbo down below somewhere.

Kurt.

ianjoub Avatar
ianjoub Ian Joubert
Homosassa, FL, USA   USA
1973 MG Midget "Mechanical Jailbait"
The farther the turbo is from the exhaust valves, the more lag you get.

A couple of extra steering joints will allow you to reroute the shaft.

Looks like you kind of got f#@^ on the parts. They look to be in bad shape.



Ian:

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S1 Elan Kurt. Appley
Akron, Ia., USA   USA
In reply to # 3537731 by ianjoub The farther the turbo is from the exhaust valves, the more lag you get.

A couple of extra steering joints will allow you to reroute the shaft.

Looks like you kind of got f#@^ on the parts. They look to be in bad shape.

If you have a turbo you have lag anyway. Fitting a supercharger would probably be no more difficult. Look up Aisin supercharger on E-bay.

Kurt.

autocomman mark w
lost angy, USA   USA
Not doin a blower, its gonna be a turbo. Gonna pick up a Mitsu Td04h-13c, from a volvo. Smaller housings, much more modern design. Hopefully it will give me the clearance I need. This turbo is the stock one from the metro, I got it in the package in pieces which was fine, figured i have it Ill run it, but its such an old design even the guy who balanced it all for me commented on how it was a really poor design, super old. So with the smaller compressor and smaller turbine housings I think ill be ok, and im not worried about sizing or efficiency really. The 13c was a bit anemic on a 2.3L motor, so it will probably perform similarly to the old garret.

And yeah it was all pretty beat up. The plenum was in good shape, the carb was ok too, but it was off an Austin something or other, an N/A car, not a turbo. Thats easy enough to deal with. The exhaust is ok, just need to have the head side surfaced. I got everything for like 300 shipped from Europe so I really cant complain too much. Its worth it for the exhaust manifold, the plenum and the carb alone.

S1 Elan Kurt. Appley
Akron, Ia., USA   USA
A little TIG work and machining would probably salvage your intake manifold.

Kurt.

wackemandstackem Avatar
Yonder, OH, USA   USA
I am doing something similar with a turbo. you can redrill and tap the metro turbo manifold for a saab gt17 turbo which will clear the steering shaft. It will be close, but it will clear plus you should have a more resposive turbo. All of the turbo minis guys use that turbo.



71 midget, by the way, it has one of those turbo things and runs

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autocomman mark w
lost angy, USA   USA
Interesting. So you think a td04 13c would be too big and laggy hmm? And the gt17 uses a t25 flange, there is enough meat to redrill the manifold? That looks like a real good option

I thought about tig work on the intake but is it clean enough to tig on? Anyone tigged one before?

S1 Elan Kurt. Appley
Akron, Ia., USA   USA
A real good wire brushing with a stainless steel brush and you should be able to TIG with no problems. Looks like you have nothing to loose on it to me. You have a PM for an alternative.

Kurt.

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trevorwj Avatar
trevorwj Trevor Jessie
Louisville, KY, USA   USA
I've tig welded a similar manifold. You need to open the pores of the metal with a brush. Then heat and brush again. When you put an arc to it all sorts of crude will creep out so I puddled every surface, then cleaned it again with a brush. This gave me a surface I could start to build on.

I'm just a hobbyist, so that may not be a proper technique, but it got me out of a jam and is holding up well.



Midget 50th - A Spridget Event
It was a Blast!
http://sprite-midgetclub.org/

autocomman mark w
lost angy, USA   USA
Eh, I'll probably buy a minispares manifold or something. I know they are slightly different but I don't wanna waste the time with the tig. I've only tigged once before and even with that said after making the ports round again there isn't much meat left for the gasket in the top and bottom. Anyone have a pic of the 2 manifolds side by side? Or know the differences? I wanna say the turbo version was a little taller

autocomman mark w
lost angy, USA   USA
Well just ordered a used gt17 turbo from a Saab for a bill...i will update with the progress

Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
Hey, Mark.

I'm intrigued by your project; as you may know I'm (slowly) putting together a DIY supercharger kit using the small Mercedes M45 blower and with EFI (though it'll work well with a single big SU sealed for forced induction).

Question: I think I have the same aluminum sensor adapter you've got, and am wondering if you're planning on using it to accommodate the stock temp gauge sender. I was going to drill and tap it to accept the stock sender's cinch ring, which I think uses an NPT tap. But it appears you're using a simple coolant hose instead. Anyway, are you going to put the stock gauge sender there? Can't quite make out what sensors if any you've got in your custom radiator.

Joel


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autocomman mark w
lost angy, USA   USA
Its not as fancy as it may seem haha. I converted the car to a sideways radiator as opposed to the original down flow it came with. Its all Midget parts, and the radiator is a standard ebay special made in china. Ive had good luck with them and they are pretty darn cheep. This one is 3 years old, no issues. There is an electric fan on the front, run by a basic inexpensive controller that uses a calipary tube. Thats the little silver wire you see in the top pictures. Its just stuck into the Fins of the radiator. Its a completely mechanical switch. It turns it on great but its not good at turning it off. And on cold days it wouldnt turn on because being stuck in the fins isnt a good indication of actual heat. So I bought the blue adaptor. It has a 1/8 npt hole in it i was gonna buy a fan switch for, just havent gotten around to getting a fan switch. The temp gauge is in the stock location in the head and its running the stock Smiths dual gauge

If your running EFI you need constant coolant flow. The upper or lower hose wont get you that, nor is that good for the gauge either. When the thermostat is closed well, obviously coolant flow in those hoses is nill. So your sensor needs to be in the head under the thermostat. At that point i would relocate your temp gauge to the heater line in the back of the head and run a bypass type heater valve so there is always coolant flow in the hose.

Back of the head may be a better place to put an ECT as the the back of the motor will always read hotter than the front. As long as you run a bypass heater valve, it will always have flow. it will have 3 ports, an inlet and a switching outlet. One hooks to the heater core the other would tee back into the heater return. And if your running EFI youll calibrate for engine temp as it warms anyway, so the number being hotter in the back that the front of the motor means nothing really.

Ill be doing a megasquirt ignition system using an old V2.2 I have lying around that I ran for years on a volvo I had. It will be fed via the stock points for a trigger through the original dizzy and coil so it all looks stock. If it fails I can just run the wire from the point back to the coil and I should never get stuck, though Ive never had my megasquirted cars fail. The timing in the dizzy will also be locked so it cannot advance as it will have that all done by the MS. IMO, a boosted motor will only run properly with a proper timing map. While I could have a dizzy set up for that its not gonna be cheep, I need to find someone who knows what they are doing, and really every motor will like it a bit different. Im not running the 9.what ever it was compression like the MG metro turbo, this is a low compression late smog 1275. Compression is 8.5, 8.5 to 1? So its actually perfect for boost!

Gonna yank the fuel tank today and see if I can figure that out

Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
Mark,

Sorry - I should've clarified a few things. Turns out, my GM OBD-I ECU uses a single sensor to monitor cylinder head temp, with which data it both informs the mixture/timing algorithms and decides when to switch on the electric fan.

So, I don't need the 1/8" NPT electric fan sensor I bought to use with the same adapter you've got. Want it? You can have it for the cost of shipping, if you'll PM or email me your address.

As for my system, you can see that I recently installed the GM sensor in the head using the Moss adapter, here: http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?3,3440132,3539083#msg-3539083 but I've also attached the image. The Moss adapter isn't ideal, so I'll probably make one people can purchase for converting their 1275s to EFI, but not for a while! It must go in the head, as you acknowledge, because the ECU is constantly making changes to mixture and timing as the engine warms up, and it needs data in 'real time' from the head--same as the Cavalier it came out of.

As for the gauge sender, I was going to redrill my aluminum hose adapter--which I don't need due to the above discussion for either the ECU or fan--and screw the OEM sender into that. I hadn't thought about putting it into the heater circuit, but like the idea of the gauge monitoring water flowing out of the radiator. I have a dual-pass Ron Davis, running a closed circuit system with a Volvo S40 expansion tank. Second photo (but yellow OEM fan now removed).

So, the aluminum gauge sender adapter would be nice and accessible in the lower hose--which in this setup is above the steering rack (one of the reasons I went to that setup). It'll go between the red silicone coming out of the radiator and the OEM lower hose, which I've chopped and rotated 90 degrees, so as to put the (custom soldered) heater pipe under the header. Makes for fewer hoses by the valve cover.

Joel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-24 01:29 PM by Yankeedriver.


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