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DIY supercharger option - with EFI!!!

Moss Motors
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Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
Okay. Spent the afternoon making and testing a parallelogram out of 3/16" steel that, similarly to Moss' mount, might have comprised the lower alternator mount and enable use of the Avalanche tensioner. No go.

Unlike where the blower is mounted on the lefthand side, it isn't possible to get sufficient wrap around the alternator pulley using a spring loaded tensioner immediately after the crank pulley. All alternative routing possibilities have been exhausted.

However, the good news: I made up a new plywood template for the front blower mount which enables an all-clockwise, single-sided, 5-rib serpentine belt, and is compatible with right-hand drive cars.

The routing will net very good wrap of all three driven pulleys, utilizing two 76mm Dorman pulleys (first pic) and a screw-type tensioner employing a 54mm Dayco pulley (second pic). The tensioner mechanism is a beefier variation of what was used in the Subaru boxer engines for many years. Solid as a rock and simple to dial-in precise, desired tension. Also, what I've got in mind should work with both vertical and cross-flow thermostat housings.

If I can finish my chores before sundown mañana, I'll fire up the band saw and make the prototype front mount out of 3/16" steel. That'll have me ready to mount the 5-rib crank pulley whenever my machinist is strong enough to do the first production run. The Smoothflow H2O pulley is to specs, and there's zero detectible runout, so everything should be copacetic. I believe Nate's just waiting for me to double-check the alignment with the crank pulley to make them available on his website.

There's light at the end of the tunnel, at last. Hope to be shipping the kits out this summer!

Joel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-03 10:17 PM by Yankeedriver.


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Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
This afternoon after work I borrowed my neighbor's welder and spent time teaching myself to weld, in advance of my own rig arriving this week.

I've been wanting a welder for a while, but the belt upgrade I want for this conversion--5 ribs instead of 4--combined with the limited space in front of the Spridget's crank pulley, forces a decision re: the alternator. This fore-aft clearance issue is almost certainly why Moss went with a 4-rib system. In short, if you want a 5-rib system without further complicating engine removal (even tighter for those with 5-speeds), the fifth rib has to go rearward/toward the timing cover. But that means the alternator's mounting ear that contacts the water pump's lug has to be shaved or the water pump's lug shaved, or both (to retain maximum thickness on each).

The straightforward solution is welding up a simple adapter mount that eliminates the mounting lug interference issue--and as a happy byproduct lowers the alternator even more. But since I'm going that route, I'm thinking that I may as well just make up all of the mounts, given the limited run of kits I'll be offering. The amount of fabrication folks will then have to do will be closer to that required for the DIY rear disc brake conversion--pretty minimal.

Joel


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mster50 Silver Member Mike Sterling/A
Zanesville, OH, USA   USA
1980 MG MGB
You have to change almost part, that is a lot of work.

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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
In reply to # 3695019 by mster50 You have to change almost part, that is a lot of work.

Sorry, Mike - could you clarify, please?

Joel


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wackemandstackem Avatar
Yonder, OH, USA   USA
I have been following this thread from the beginning.

Isn't it amazing how 90% of the work only takes up 10% of the time, and the last 10% of all the little details take 90% of the time.

A lot of people think bolting a supercharger is straightforward, and if it were, we all would be doing it. It is cool to be different.

Keep moving forward, it will be worth it when you finally turn the key and your hard work roars to life. I know the feeling.



71 midget, by the way, it has one of those turbo things and runs

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Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
In reply to # 3695182 by wackemandstackem I have been following this thread from the beginning.

Isn't it amazing how 90% of the work only takes up 10% of the time, and the last 10% of all the little details take 90% of the time.

A lot of people think bolting a supercharger is straightforward, and if it were, we all would be doing it. It is cool to be different.

Keep moving forward, it will be worth it when you finally turn the key and your hard work roars to life. I know the feeling.

Hey, R.K.

You're totally right about that.

I really appreciate the supportive post, too. It's snowing here and just above freezing in the shop, so I only got to work for a couple of hours before I couldn't hold the gun steady enough to do this relatively fine work. But it was reasonably productive.

My solution to the above alternator-alignment issue is mechanically straightforward, but raises what I am told is a common welding challenge--welding thinner material to thicker. The neighbor's MIG welder was out of gas, so I'm using flux core as I teach myself to weld. But a Youtube video showed me a cool technique for not blowing through the somewhat thinner wall steel tubing while still penetrating the 1/8" steel bar I'm attaching to it. I've almost got it down, but I'm guessing there will be another adjustment next weekend when getting familiar with my new welder. It has a different controls, etc.

Anyway, the ten of us who end up doing this conversion (one of the eleven M45 adapters I had made, together with the second blower I rebuilt, sold to a guy DIY-supercharging a 240Z) will have nifty, handmade steel mounts. Now, if I can just get the welds not to look like slathered-on caulking, maybe I'll be able to spin off the fringe of rust starting to form on my pretty disc brakes! cool smiley

Joel

P.S. - You might post a video with sound of that turbocharged Spridget sometime... is it intercooled?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-11 05:57 PM by Yankeedriver.


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mster50 Silver Member Mike Sterling/A
Zanesville, OH, USA   USA
1980 MG MGB
In reply to # 3695074 by Yankeedriver
In reply to # 3695019 by mster50 You have to change almost part, that is a lot of work.

Sorry, Mike - could you clarify, please?

Joel

Every time you modify one part for the project, you have to re-engineer two others to make it work.

It is amazing the amount of work each little part makes for you. I admire the determination.

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Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
In reply to # 3695953 by mster50 Every time you modify one part for the project, you have to re-engineer two others to make it work.

It is amazing the amount of work each little part makes for you. I admire the determination.

Mike,

Thanks for saying that. It is lots of work to make just 10 Spridget speed demons happy, but what else is the purpose of this life?

Joel


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Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
This afternoon I met with the neighborhood CNC shop owner, finally out of hospital (for now).

After some discussion, he came up with a way of making our 5-rib crank pulleys solely on the big CNC lathe in 'siamese twin' pairs (including the central bore and broaching the crank key slot). That will save a second setup on the multi-axis CNC mill, as well as wasting less aluminum stock during the cut-off operation, which we hope will offset some of the damage to the kit price done by the President's tariffs on aluminum (suppliers are already starting to pass on the anticipated cost increase to jobbers).

This improvement over a multi-setup production has byproducts like reducing runout to near-zero, improving belt life and reducing stress on things like the combo front idler and blower mount (which to be conservative will be 3/16" steel). His machine is set up to within two thousandths at 8" out from center. This is kind of overkill, I suppose, but I like nice parts!

We're behind a big job for Honeywell, and possibly a Sandia Labs job too, so he hopes to cut our prototype crank pulley in ~2 weeks. By then I'll have the engine out to finish the prototype blower mounts. So, I'll be able to make quick work of double-checking the fore-aft alignment with the Smoothflow A-series H2O pump pulley and get the production run going.

Joel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-27 09:57 PM by Yankeedriver.


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Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
Bad news. My neighbor and machinist is not doing well, so I haven't had the heart to pester his son/foreman about the crank pulleys. This is one of the nicest people I've met in many years and hard to take.

The good news is that I revisited the alternator situation and discovered that the amount of adjustment I needed to create is not enough to eat into the strengthening ribs on the water pump, so I just cut a 3mm disc out of the mounting ear... and voila! More than sufficient clearance to fine-tune the alignment using shims, and no need to add expense or extra work welding up the alternator 'outrigger' mount I had come up with.

The pictures show me doing the markup and cutting with the pump in a vise, but there's plenty of clearance to do this on the car without having to R&R the pump. This was literally a 10-minute job and simple to do with a regular hack saw and flat file as needed.

Next weekend, I hope to weld up the front mount and make up the screw-type adjuster. Then, it'll just be waiting on the crank pulleys. So, maybe I'll work on the EFI setup in the interim.

P.S. This newer model Saturn alternator is really sweet. More juice and better cooling out of a smaller I.D. case, so enables even lower mounting of the alternator, more room to maximize bonnet clearance.

Joel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-15 09:44 PM by Yankeedriver.


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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
Work has gotten crazy again, but I did make time today to cut an improved version of the second component of the front mount, and begin work on the screw-type belt tensioner.

The new piece--that question mark-shaped thingy arcing under the blower's snout--will get welded to the angle iron attached to the head. This component will likely be water-jet cut as many DIYers don't have a drill press and band saw. It then gets little 'L' brackets made from scrap angle iron welded to its outboard back side with slots in the long leg of each 'L' to allow fore-aft fine adjustment.

That second piece of angle iron (frontmost in the photo) with the small idler pivots on the old alternator adjustment bolt. A piece of steel welded to the angle iron attached to the head with a nut welded onto it will allow fine-tuning of the serpentine belt adjustment simply by turning a bolt. My set will be painted either black, same color as the engine, or high-temp silver. Dunno yet which would look best.

Vertical-flow radiator cars will use a little spacer to clear the adjuster that lifts the thermo housing up--as with the EFI Mini piece Mark point me to. There's plenty of room under the bonnet, as Johnny's latest photo of his engine compartment reminded me. The OEM radiator's filler neck is higher and farther forward than the thermo housing. I'd forgotten about that.

The last photo is checking the final idler's position. This is the one that lets me spin the alternator in the intended direction, while netting plenty of wrap; the blower gets excellent wrap.

Finally - I'll likely leave everything in place when I shift back to finish the EFI, since one can run a serpentine belt setup on a naturally aspirated engine by simply using a shorter belt and tightening it with the alternator adjustment, per the OEM setup.

Joel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-21 08:38 PM by Yankeedriver.


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autocomman mark w
lost angy, USA   USA
Make sure you but a bracket on the back of that alternator. If you leave that one ear on just the waterpump at the mount it will snap the waterpump. Thats even with the rear mount that bolts to the block! When setting my GM alternator up I read alot of that happening. My alternator a CS121 I think it is has a bolt on the back for an extra bracket. So I bolted a slotted strap the the rear mount point where the bracket is, Ill post up a pic later tonight. It keeps the alternator from vibrating back and forth which is what snaps the ear on the waterpump.

Mark

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Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, NM, USA   USA
In reply to # 3722300 by autocomman Make sure you but a bracket on the back of that alternator. If you leave that one ear on just the waterpump at the mount it will snap the waterpump. Thats even with the rear mount that bolts to the block! When setting my GM alternator up I read alot of that happening. My alternator a CS121 I think it is has a bolt on the back for an extra bracket. So I bolted a slotted strap the the rear mount point where the bracket is, Ill post up a pic later tonight. It keeps the alternator from vibrating back and forth which is what snaps the ear on the waterpump.

Mark

Mark,

Yes - it's hooked up to the OEM rear bracket, as seen here. It also gets bolted rigidly to the front engine plate at the lower ear--shown in earlier posts. I can't budge the thing. But happy to see what you did. Thanks!

Joel


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