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Valve Guide Sleeves

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Valve Guide Sleeves
#1
  This topic is about my 1972 MG MGB MkIII
albeegreen1 Avatar
albeegreen1 Gold Member bob tresch
bordentown, NJ, USA   USA
1972 MG MGB MkIII "ALBERT"
Redoing a 67 head and have been told by a local shop to re-sleeve the originals. Not sure. I was going to simply press new silicone bronze ones in and fit Posi seals. What do you think?



"Be yourself, because everybody else is already taken". - Oscar Wilde.

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride" - Phineas Quimby.

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13401h Greg Mouritz
Mentone, Victoria, Australia   AUS
No issue with this reconditioning method. Many types of cast iron heads do not have removable guides so the only pragmatic method to recondition is with a bronze liner. Can also be done to removable guides.
You can still request the machine shop to modify the guides for posi seals.

Hope this helps....Greg

ghnl Avatar
ghnl Silver Member Eric Russell
Mebane, NC, USA   USA
1961 MG MGA "Calvin"
Dale Spooner (Motion Machine Shop - see the Make A Wish engine build thread) prefers liners to solid bronze guides.

Bronze guides need more clearance to avoid binding on the stems. Not all machine shops realize this,



Eric Russell ~ Mebane, NC
1961 MGA #61, 1981 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 1984 Alfa Romeo Spider, 1991 Honda ST1100

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HiPowerShooter Avatar
HiPowerShooter Gold Member James Booker
Lake Winneconne, WI, USA   USA
1973 MG MGB
K-line guide liners work as well or better than new bronze guides. They allow the tolerance of bronze while retaining the similar heating/cooling properties of the cast guides already in place. I use them on every head which needs guide work and my boss estimates the shop has installed half a million of them over the years. Last year we had this discussion and said he can think of only one time where he had an issue with one of them...

Yes...the posi-seals are the way to go. BUT....don't be one of "them" hack builders who simply beats them over the existing guides. CUT the top of the guide down to fit. Any shop worth their weight will have them in stock.



"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions"--Alvin "Tex" Johnston...Boeing test pilot.

73 MGB. Tires: Round, black, hold air. Oil: Sometimes old, sometimes new...always slippery. Oil filter: Yellow, usually full of oil. Carbs: 2 SU HIF. Distributor: Yes. Headlights: Not that bright but bright enough. A bunch of other stuff most cars have but not really important enough to itemize. Oh, wait...it has a cool sounding exhaust with stickers on the chrome tips. Really slays the ladies...

albeegreen1 Avatar
albeegreen1 Gold Member bob tresch
bordentown, NJ, USA   USA
1972 MG MGB MkIII "ALBERT"
These thoughts tells me the shop is on track. Thanks guys. I hope it passes the Magna Flux.



"Be yourself, because everybody else is already taken". - Oscar Wilde.

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride" - Phineas Quimby.

Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
I mostly use the all bronze guides, as almost all the heads I do are getting ported so I need to remove the guides to do that, and the work properly, and there are special instruction with the all bronze guide, where it detail it needs more stem to guide ID clearance, due to different heat expansion rates of cast vs bronze, which if did the right way never gives any issue. With all that said if the guides don't need to be removed, the K-Line guide liners are a excellent solution, which indeed are bronze sleeve that is installed in your existing guide, they are much thinner piece of bronze, so not heat expansion sensitive to the extra clearance needed on stem to guide clearance on the all bronze guide. the K line sleeves are reliable, so yes if there is no reason to remove the guide, then K-line liners are great. If I did more stock heads, I would probably buy, and use this set up too.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Website: www.acmespeedshop.com
hapwaldrop@acmespeedshop.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-05-17 10:03 AM by Speedracer.


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albeegreen1 Avatar
albeegreen1 Gold Member bob tresch
bordentown, NJ, USA   USA
1972 MG MGB MkIII "ALBERT"
Good info Hap. So can I use Posi seals on either type of valve guide R+R ? I understand which ever I use they have to be fitted correctly or there toast at start up. Thanks !



"Be yourself, because everybody else is already taken". - Oscar Wilde.

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride" - Phineas Quimby.

Motion Avatar
Motion Gold Member Dale Spooner
Danville, VA, USA   USA
1977 MG MGB
The very common Viton seal that most machine shops use as an upgrade (cut guide top to .530"winking smiley, does add some height to the guide when installed, about .175". Be sure the shop knows your valve lift so they can check to be sure the seal will clear the retainer by a minimum .050".


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Complete automotive machine shop, with special interest in British motors.
78 B PaceCar Avatar
78 B PaceCar George Funderburke
Kennesaw, GA, USA   USA
James/Hap, You mention using the posi seals. Are these seals like the umbrella seals used on early chevy engines? I was told it was better to use the original seals because some oil passage was good for the guides and valve stems... What are your thought on this? I'm sure others are thinking the same...
Thanks..

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albeegreen1 Avatar
albeegreen1 Gold Member bob tresch
bordentown, NJ, USA   USA
1972 MG MGB MkIII "ALBERT"
George: You'd be surprised how little lube oil lite bronze needs. I asked the same question also being a former small block hack. They are different than the umbrella type.



"Be yourself, because everybody else is already taken". - Oscar Wilde.

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride" - Phineas Quimby.

78 B PaceCar Avatar
78 B PaceCar George Funderburke
Kennesaw, GA, USA   USA
Thanks Bob. In the past, I have always insisted that the machine shop use the original seals that go under the keepers. Maybe I need to rethink my position on this...

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Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 3737211 by albeegreen1 Good info Hap. So can I use Posi seals on either type of valve guide R+R ? I understand which ever I use they have to be fitted correctly or there toast at start up. Thanks !

Yes, the Payen all viton seal Moss and BPNW sells requires no modification the the guide OD, and is held on with steel band, to install, you simply push them by hand, they clear every normal single and dual spring set used on the MGB. I've never seen one give a issue ever.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Website: www.acmespeedshop.com
hapwaldrop@acmespeedshop.com


Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Free Tech Advice - VTO alloy wheels for British Sport Cars, and others
albeegreen1 Avatar
albeegreen1 Gold Member bob tresch
bordentown, NJ, USA   USA
1972 MG MGB MkIII "ALBERT"
I got the news last night that the 10-67 head is cracked in the middle between the 2 exhaust valves deep. He said it was unusual that it was deep in the valve guide area. I'll post tomorrow on it when I get it back tonight. They said you could not tell by doing a visual. Canoe anchor anyone? I have a 11-71 big valve to test next.
sad smiley



"Be yourself, because everybody else is already taken". - Oscar Wilde.

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride" - Phineas Quimby.

HiPowerShooter Avatar
HiPowerShooter Gold Member James Booker
Lake Winneconne, WI, USA   USA
1973 MG MGB
These are the seal I've used many times. I simply cut the top of the valve guide down to size...in the head...and they allow plenty of room for the springs. If you simply push them down on the un-cut guides it's a very tight fit. Literally takes me 10 seconds per guide with the air drill and bit...which again, most shops will have as standard equipment as it's a very common size.



"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions"--Alvin "Tex" Johnston...Boeing test pilot.

73 MGB. Tires: Round, black, hold air. Oil: Sometimes old, sometimes new...always slippery. Oil filter: Yellow, usually full of oil. Carbs: 2 SU HIF. Distributor: Yes. Headlights: Not that bright but bright enough. A bunch of other stuff most cars have but not really important enough to itemize. Oh, wait...it has a cool sounding exhaust with stickers on the chrome tips. Really slays the ladies...


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albeegreen1 Avatar
albeegreen1 Gold Member bob tresch
bordentown, NJ, USA   USA
1972 MG MGB MkIII "ALBERT"
Well I got the 67 head back last night and it exhibits classic Flowspeed cracks. #2 + #3 exhaust guide boss. The pictures show very faint lines where the machinist ground out some material to better mark it. It was a good experience and got to pick his brain. He thought unusual how deep and inward they were. Also, very admirable he did not try to talk me into fixing the thing. What a shame, this head had a lot of meat on it and doubt it was ever ground. Two good things came from it anyway, I got to talk about his work and experience with LBC heads. And I got my purchase price back from the seller ! This head would look great now on any coffee table or used in a head tossing contest. I'm happy. I have a late 71 big valve next to check sight unseen and money back if no good. Thanks for the valve guide pictures. smiling smiley As always great help here.



"Be yourself, because everybody else is already taken". - Oscar Wilde.

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride" - Phineas Quimby.


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