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DIY pedestal type Hi ratio rocker arms for my MGB

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pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
New ones are already on their way. I'm still staking them with the centre punch.

There's really not much way to test whether they have an interference fit or not. Do you think Locktite would wick in if there was only a sliding fit?

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.

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ozieagle Avatar
ozieagle Gold Member Herb Adler
Geelong Victoria, Australia   AUS
1958 Wolseley 1500 "Wooly"
1966 MG MGB "Bl**dy B"
There is a Loctite available for after assy use. Loctite and staking, belts and braces.You don't want to risk that happening on the freeway.

Herb



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pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
Thanks Herb! Green Locktite is the stuff that wicks into things. I'll pick up a tube next time I'm at Canadian Tire.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.

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B-racer Avatar
B-racer Jeff Schlemmer
Shakopee, MN, USA   USA
1950 Willys Jeep Pickup "Ratrod"
1971 MG MGB
2014 Dodge Charger
Green Loctite is so thin it'll work its way into the needle bearings and you'll find the whole works locked up tight. It is NOT designed for the level of durability you'll need. It would however work if you installed the bronze bushings - that's what its designed for. You'd have a significantly larger surface area to lock in place, and pores for the Loctite to set up in (across the entire bushing surface).

Disassembly of one rocker will tell you how much press fit there is. Its no mystery - you can measure it.



jeff@advanceddistributors.com

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pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 3909064 by B-racer Green Loctite is so thin it'll work its way into the needle bearings and you'll find the whole works locked up tight. It is NOT designed for the level of durability you'll need. It would however work if you installed the bronze bushings - that's what its designed for. You'd have a significantly larger surface area to lock in place, and pores for the Loctite to set up in (across the entire bushing surface).

Disassembly of one rocker will tell you how much press fit there is. Its no mystery - you can measure it.

I wasn't planning on dipping them in green Locktite. Surface area would be pretty much the same IMO.

Disassembly was not considered in the design of these rocker arms. It would be near impossible to do without destroying the bearings... or the arms. I would have to disassemble and measure all of the rockers to be sure they were all ok. I "checked" the other 6 bearings and they seem to be tight. I will be centre punching the pivots just the same, to be sure this won't happen again.

I doubt anyone even makes a bronze bushing kit for these aftermarket rocker arms.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.

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fast-MG.com Avatar
fast-MG.com Gold Member Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
Adrian, as Jeff alludes to, be careful with the Loctite as a little dab 'll do ya! Allow some cure time and check needle bearings are free.


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Dave Headley, dba FAB-TEK offers full service race car parts and preparation for MGB & MGA race cars, SCCA and Vintage. Dave is a mechanical engineer and has raced MGBs since 1963.
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pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 3909119 by fast-MG.com Adrian, as Jeff alludes to, be careful with the Loctite as a little dab 'll do ya! Allow some cure time and check needle bearings are free.

So... rather than dunking the rocker up to my wrist in a pail of Locktite I should use a toothpick or some such to apply a small amount, only where needed? devil smiley Seems awful fussy but I'll give it a shot. grinning smiley

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.

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fast-MG.com Avatar
fast-MG.com Gold Member Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
One drop on each side where you have the punch marks should be enough. It either wicks in or it doesn't.


Member Services:
Dave Headley, dba FAB-TEK offers full service race car parts and preparation for MGB & MGA race cars, SCCA and Vintage. Dave is a mechanical engineer and has raced MGBs since 1963.
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pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
This is the gift that just keeps on giving. I lost 25 needles inside my engine when 2 of the rockers fell apart. I've managed to find 20 of them. I have the sump off, the tappet covers and the distributor drive out and no sign of the missing 5. I have no idea if I ever had them or not really. Just have to keep going until I've inspected every square inch... or find them. The other thing I found is my new tappets are not spinning so they are are all pitted. I need to crawl back under tomorrow and see if I can inspect the cam lobes. It's been a rough 500 miles on this new engine. First Smith Brothers sent the wrong pushrod ends, then the rockers fell apart, and now the tappets are shot. Tomorrow I'll find out if the cam is shot too. Yay.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-22 10:09 PM by pinkyponk.


Attachments:
tappets 001.JPG    18.3 KB
tappets 001.JPG

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Denis Avatar
Denis Denis Hill
Bearii, Nth Victoria, Australia   AUS
Check in the valve spring coils. All I could think of and it is one of the few things that a bit of loose junk could damage. Sorry about the run of bad luck. Were they new lifters or regrind? I have had a great run with APT although my cam was a local billet. Denis



68 B roadster, Daffodil yellow, supercharger, Burgess SC head, SC cam, Mikuni HSR 48 carburetor and engine built for supercharging.

73 BGT V8 conversion starting with a bare shell. Built the engine "3.9L Rover" early in 2016 with high comp pistons and a few other nice bits, plus a T5 ford trans. Started on the body late 2016 and complete late 2017, Did all the work myself, mechanical, body. paint etc.
Finished and going well, great to drive and quick. Now has a nice 3.23 LSD.

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ozieagle Gold Member Herb Adler
Geelong Victoria, Australia   AUS
1958 Wolseley 1500 "Wooly"
1966 MG MGB "Bl**dy B"
All great inventors have their ups and downs. How many tries did Edison do until he got a light bulb working?

Herb



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pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 3913291 by Denis Check in the valve spring coils. All I could think of and it is one of the few things that a bit of loose junk could damage. Sorry about the run of bad luck. Were they new lifters or regrind? I have had a great run with APT although my cam was a local billet. Denis

I haven't taken the springs off yet but I've been shining a light inside them from every angle and can't see anything. Yes they were new tappets from Mini Spares(the silver ones)... on a newly re-ground cam. I smeared on the assembly lube Schneider's provided and filled the sump with VR1 oil so it should have had lots of zinc. The tappets just asrn't turning. They feel silky smooth and turn freely in the bores. Only things I can think of is improper grind or the pushrods are grabbing them at the cups inside the tappets some how... but that should turn anyway. They are crowned. It looks like they are etched with chunks missing. Number 7 is the worst.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-23 08:51 AM by pinkyponk.

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pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 3913293 by ozieagle All great inventors have their ups and downs. How many tries did Edison do until he got a light bulb working?

Herb

Thanks... but I haven't done a single new thing here Herb. The rocker design is all Dave's.(I tried to do internal oiling but gave up) The damage to the tappets would have surely have been on the old rocker system. The new rocker arms were only in place for 1/2 an hour or so. Any thoughts on why the tappets aren't turning? Or where the missing needles are hiding?

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.

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riley1489 Avatar
riley1489 Gold Member Bruce H
Great White North, QC, Canada   CAN
1953 Jaguar XK120
1959 Riley 1.5 "King George"
1973 MG MGB
In reply to # 3913420 by pinkyponk . Any thoughts on why the tappets aren't turning?

my understanding of how 'flat' bottom cam followers turn/spin is that the camshaft lobe is machined with a taper/slope on one side of the lobe. So the follower simply rides this slope/taper and spins/turns/rotates.
Is it possible the camshaft is ground incorrectly?

maybe this 'lack of oil supply ' you are presently experiencing was always present, and contributed to this cam follower damage?

Sorry for asking more questions. cool smiley

B



Check your ego Amigo!

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pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 3913428 by riley1489
In reply to # 3913420 by pinkyponk . Any thoughts on why the tappets aren't turning?

my understanding of how 'flat' bottom cam followers turn/spin is that the camshaft lobe is machined with a taper/slope on one side of the lobe. So the follower simply rides this slope/taper and spins/turns/rotates.
Is it possible the camshaft is ground incorrectly?

maybe this 'lack of oil supply ' you are presently experiencing was always present, and contributed to this cam follower damage?

Sorry for asking more questions. cool smiley

B
Bruce,

Thanks for your thoughts. I think if everything was ground properly( the cam) the only other variables would be the tappet bores having something wrong with them or the tappets themselves being soft or some other metallurgical problem. I can tell you that the tappets are indeed crowned on the bottom as they should be... and they were not turning. I don't think my gear is accurate enough to check the taper on a cam lobe. I sent a picture to Schneider and asked for their take on what has happened. I suppose the same message should be sent to Minispares for their take.

I have no lack of oil supply I am aware of. The rocker shafts I replaced earlier were in a completely different engine. I think Jeff seized onto that and attributed it to some lack of oil "malady" that had me going through piles of rocker shafts in this new completely different engine. I think some confusion also arose when I posted a picture of my collection of bad rocker arms.(similar to your own fine collection) They were not all from a single engine and not worn out by me. They were certainly not in the engine that is in my car now. I have a total of 500 miles on this engine ever in my life and have never ever run it before in any car. The 500 miles that are on this new engine were all on the old style (but brand new) rocker shaft, new stock pushrods and stock MGB rocker arms(with new bushings) ... except for the 1.5 mile run I did last week on the new rocker arm setup. I don't think any of my current tappet issue can be assigned to the new rocker Chevy rocker arms.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.

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