The all-new Front Page News Feed is now live   Read the announcement
MGExp

MGB & GT Forum

DIY M62 supercharger build... stage 2

Moss Motors
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

RAY 67 TOURER Avatar
RAY 67 TOURER Ray Marloff
Fort Bragg, CA, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB "My Girl"
Where there's a will, there's a way! RAY

. Hide this ad & support a small business by becoming a Gold Supporting Member
Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
Thanks for the kind words gentlemen!

I got the choke sorted out today. I had to turn a tiny aluminum crimp on the lathe for a new cable end to fit inside the little brass choke plunger on the Mikuni. The worst of it was getting the cable re-routed through the dash. Hands got a bit scratched up and I'll probably have a few sore spots from being tangled up upside down under the steering wheel a half dozen or so times. Major pain in the butt but nice to have it working with the stock T handle.

There's really nothing left to do now but install the new needle bearings and fit everything up for a test firing. I forgot... I also have to patch the hole in the plenum where the bypass valve used to connect.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-28 06:20 AM by pinkyponk.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
These little jobs do have a way of going on...

I made a new sneeze valve because the old one was in a very inconvenient place due to lack of room. I had to remove the valve cover among other didoes to reset it if I had a backfire.(I haven't figured out how to keep the O ring in place during a backfire) I figured I might have a backfire or 2 heading into new territory with the Mikuni so I wanted to improve access. Cutting out the bypass valve cleared up some real estate for the sneeze valve. The old one got blanked off. The new sneeze valve also covers the hole from the old bypass valve.

I also added a second vacuum fitting. No more T fitting to connect the ignition box and the boost gauge through.

My rotors had shed most of their special black coating so I removed the rest. Does anyone know what this stuff was meant to do? I searched at bit on the Google but didn't find anything... other that a lot of Mustang owners apparently strip the coating off as a matter of course. Methyl ethyl ketone takes it off pretty easily.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-31 12:23 PM by pinkyponk.

. Hide this ad & support a small business by becoming a Gold Supporting Member

Attachments:
Berwick car sales 002.JPG    44 KB
Berwick car sales 002.JPG

Berwick car sales 001.JPG    35.8 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
Berwick car sales 003.JPG    38.9 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
Berwick car sales 001.JPG    47.5 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
Berwick car sales 004.JPG    39.3 KB
Sign In or Register to view this photo
Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
rocannon Avatar
rocannon Platinum Member Frank .
Clairvius Narcisse Township, Bokor, St. Kitts and Nevis   KNA
1967 MG MGB GT "GT From Hell"
1980 MG MGB "Restored By Photoshop Inc."
Regarding coating: http://www.thehighspeedlab.com/eaton-rotor-coating.html

Seems to me the coating is worth reapplying.



- .- -. ... - .- .- ..-. .-.. -.-.--

Krishnamurti: “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

Sententia est fallacia; credere durum praecipitatum omnia inanis.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
gray Avatar
gray Graham Moore
CAMBRIDGE, CAMBRIDGE, UK   GBR
Adrian. yours look like mine did when i removed them for the first time. Most of the black coating had been removed. it was there when i installed it.

in the (BMW) mini world there are two 'generations' of M45. the first had no black coating. the later black ones are referred to as the Teflon rotors. Many discussions have taken place about the purpose of the teflon and the majority claim it was noise reduction..

of course the coated rotors are not meant to be used wet. so recoating them & putting them back may be a bit pointless.

i also found some figures of how much clearance there should be between rotor and the front plate (ie what you have in pic4 - where rotor meets plate) - but i cannot find it. 7 thou seems to be a figure i recal but thought i would mention it as i am still searching for the doc.

regarding lateral(?) movement - if you stand the rotors on end like you have in pic 4, then take one rotor in each hand and gently pull them apart - do you detect any appreciable movement? reason i ask, is i have 2 chargers. the one i have on my desk has minimal endfloat at the rotors - about 5 thou - BUT, if i grab rotors as described, there is play. by meshing the rotor and looking at the gap - it goes from 0 to about 0.5mm and i can knock the rotors together.

my intuition says 'bad rotors' but i really don't know what tolerances are - as of course both driveshafts are located in the needle bearings.

the gongs are going now.

have a great 2019 and beyond - all of you out there.

G

Was this post helpful or interesting?
+1 Yes No Thank
  pinkyponk thanked gray for this post
pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
I have spent several more hours trying find out what the coating is for with no luck. I have found the usual copious amounts of internet rubbish and speculation. I will contact Eaton and ask them what the stuff is meant to do. ( I mistrust companies that are trying to sell me something. "Thermal rotor coatings" are particularly suspicious to me)

I have found pictures of what superchargers can look like in their intended use... that is as dry air pumps. They can get pretty gunked up. Mine stays surgically clean inside, I presume due to being rinsed constantly with hot gasoline mist.

I also found that early Eaton blowers had no coating... and that the factory coatings seem to be prone to coming off. The polished aluminum rotors are not roughed up in any way to promote adhesion of the coating. I will be pretty surprised if it's teflon... that stuff is difficult to get to stick to anything... kind of it's calling card. Mine will be going together as is with no coating.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-01 10:58 AM by pinkyponk.


Attachments:
gunked up rotors.jpg    45.2 KB
gunked up rotors.jpg

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
gray Avatar
gray Graham Moore
CAMBRIDGE, CAMBRIDGE, UK   GBR
i have just read my previous post and must have inadvertently deleted a sentence or two.

adrian - i was hoping for your assistance pls on a measuring matter.

i have a second charger and am wondering if the one i have in the car at the moment is worn out - as at low rpm, boost really doesn't happen very much compared to other installs. but i was trying to gauge it's suitability as i know for a fact that this replacement charger was subject to a waterpump that failed badly. one of the rotors in the Mini supercharger has a gear on the rear end which drives the water pump and that gear had turned to powder as it's meshing with the pump had gone horribly wrong. it's the primary reason for supercharger related failure on the mini as replacement gears are not available. so they have to be chucked to folks like me.

so i wanted to compare one of the potential issues i have..... with your know working unit whilst you have it out on the bench, before i pull mine. that's the lateral movement. i don't know if there should be any noticeable or not.

i still cannot find the doc i referred to but what i did do was measure my end float and it's 7 thou (at Yellow arrow in pic). at the time i saw the info i was pleased as mine still had factory end float. so looks like my memory served me well.

but I would really appreciate if you could let me know if you feel lateral movement on yours (as it feels rather un-nerving even though they would be centred in the bearings), and if so how much. just measured with a feeler gauge and i reckon max 17 thou (Red arrow in pic)- but as it's curved, it's only approximate.

the other reason that folks cite for usage of 'teflon' coating is better sealing between rotors.but not sure i buy that one. make rotors a bit bigger? you make a better guess when you put it back in.

G



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-01 11:37 AM by gray.


Attachments:
m90-2.jpg    27.2 KB
m90-2.jpg

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
There is no end float between the rotors and front plate on mine Graham. They are press fit into ball bearings. The other ends of the rotors do wiggle a bit but not much. Nothing I thought was worth worrying about as you say... they are trapped by bearings.I'll see what I can do to measure it for you later on today. Got some store hours to change for the new year first.

I don't buy the clearance claim either. If you can't machine something properly, giving a coat of paint seems a right bodge. I'm thinking anyone who can machine triple helix rotors en mass doesn't need paint to make them the right size. Thermal coating angle is BS in my opinion... the rotors would just take a tiny fraction longer to heat up with R 0.000005 insulation on them. (Insulation doesn't stop heat flow... it just slows it down.) But now I'm adding to the rubbish... best to ask Eaton once they get back to work. Here's another guess... maybe it's to help prevent that carbon/varnish build up?

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-01 09:40 PM by pinkyponk.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
gray Avatar
gray Graham Moore
CAMBRIDGE, CAMBRIDGE, UK   GBR
i guess it could be for wind noise reduction.

don't know why i used term end float. i meant clearance. as you say, fixed in by bearing.

in fact, thinking about it now you say BEARING, that is where the movement must be coming from. the race. there is nothing else that can allow lateral movement.

G

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 3866295 by gray i guess it could be for wind noise reduction.

don't know why i used term end float. i meant clearance. as you say, fixed in by bearing.

in fact, thinking about it now you say BEARING, that is where the movement must be coming from. the race. there is nothing else that can allow lateral movement.

G

Wind noise... sure, why not? The oval slots in the outlet are reportedly for noise reduction. Eaton must feel it does something useful or they wouldn't bother.

End clearance was about 4 thou with feeler gauges. The rotors would knock together easily. Probably a 1/16" of play where your red line is. Now that it is assembled there is no play at all in any of it... it's a beautifully smooth working mechanism.

As best I can tell with feeler gauges the rotor to rotor lobe clearance is 4 thou. and rotor to housing is 7 thou. So that's pretty darned good. It would be slightly closer with a coat of paint on it... but not much. I'm not concerned in the slightest.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
Denis Avatar
Denis Denis Hill
Bearii, Nth Victoria, Australia   AUS
Adrian There seems to be many different rotor coatings around, from ,001" to even an interference fit coating, I guess this helps the low speed compression and beds in. Denis



68 B roadster, Daffodil yellow, supercharger, Burgess SC head, SC cam, Mikuni HSR 48 carburetor and engine built for supercharging.

73 BGT V8 conversion starting with a bare shell. Built the engine "3.9L Rover" early in 2016 with high comp pistons and a few other nice bits, plus a T5 ford trans. Started on the body late 2016 and complete late 2017, Did all the work myself, mechanical, body. paint etc.
Finished and going well, great to drive and quick. Now has a nice 3.23 LSD.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
I read that Denis. I heard it called "abradeable coating" which I suspect is what was on my gen V M62. Most things are abradeable. When I first got mine it had a pristine coating and I didn't notice anywhere that I thought it had been rubbing. It looked like flat black paint. My friend just picked up an M62 that from memory looked pristine. I'll have a more careful look.

Mine has mostly flaked off. Is yours still intact?

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
gray Avatar
gray Graham Moore
CAMBRIDGE, CAMBRIDGE, UK   GBR
thanks for that adrian. just what i wanted to hear! sounds like my spare is worth a shot to see if it performs any differently. i think it's probably done much less mileage that the one i have on right now.

have a couple more changes up my sleeve but i want to do them 1 at a time. slightly more painful but long term investment.

G

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
gray Avatar
gray Graham Moore
CAMBRIDGE, CAMBRIDGE, UK   GBR
are you using the (non-asbestos) woven card type gasket material or nitrile/viton for the charger<->inlet manifold gasket adrian?

i have found that the card types have almost failed in a couple of places where fuel has soaked through on one side - perhaps due to mating faces that are not true quite enough, and was thinking of using viton. the metal BMW gaskets are designed just for airtightness not fuel tight and i have had minor seepage marks.

my only concern is heat from exhaust manifold. viton is good to 200*C according to the spec on the stuff i have bought - but not sure if that's good enough where it comes close to exh manifold at the bottom edge.

anyone tried rubberized gaskets? i understand many folks have replaced the Moss supplied one.

regarding pressures, 6-10 psi is far less than a spongy wheelbarrow tyre so don't see that as an issue and i am thinking rubber will seal well to a slightly imperfect surface.

G

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, NS, Canada   CAN
Stick some feeler gauges in here and there and see what you come up with. I'd like to know.

I use gray paper gasket that looks just like the stuff in the Payen engine sets. It's 40 thou I think. I smeared a tiny bit of silicone sealant on both sides. Not had any issues. I let the silicone setup over night before putting into service.

Can you not flat the mating parts on glass?

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 7.6psi boost, 8:1 compression, custom "supercharger" cam from Schneider Cams, Mikuni HSR48 Carburetor, Chevy Cavalier 1.6 rocker arms, Maxspeeding rods with Teflon wrist pin buttons, custom aluminum cold air intake, CB Performance computerized ignition, Fidanza 9 pound flywheel, 1.44 exhaust valves in 48cc chamber head, matched manifolds, 2 1/4" exhaust system.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
. Hide this ad & support a small business by becoming a Gold Supporting Member

To add your reply, or post your own questions




Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster