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gold seal engines

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starfire colin wildon
middlesbrough, yorkshire, UK   GBR
My car has a bmc gold seal engine and gear box replacement. do i paint it marroon or the original gold

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Tbird Avatar
Tbird ET Taylor
Land O Sky, NC, USA   USA
Guess it depends on what your plans are for the car....

Just an opinion but since it is not the original engine I would stay with the Gold that is correct for the Gold Seal engine. It would seem that in a judged event points would be counted off for a gold seal engine painted maroon.

On the other had - if it's a driver and you want it to appear original - go with Maroon.

That would be a hard decision if it were my car.

Good luck,
Eric

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fourwheelzone Avatar
fourwheelzone Alexander R
Bathgate, West Lothian, UK   GBR
Very few cars now have their original engines fitted, regardless of what it may say on the engine tag. I would restore to Gold Seal appearance as much as possible - after all this is the history of your car - the fact that it got Gold Seal units showed that somebody cared, as they sureley weren't the cheapest. Are the original decals still present? I'm not sure whether anyone is reproducing those at present. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Alex

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Neil MG Avatar
Neil MG Neil McGurk
Cumbria, UK   GBR
1956 Morris Minor
1958 MG MGA
1960 MG MGA
1961 MG MGA    & more
I agree with Alex and think a refinished original gold seal engine in a detailed engine bay would be fantastic.

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cschaefer Silver Member Chuck Schaefer
West Chicago, IL, USA   USA
I like the gold too because it is different. But, IIRC Gold Seal engines were not original. They were just factory rebuilt engines. As such a rebuilt engine is a rebuilt engine. I think nobody expects a 50+year old car today to not have a rebuilt engine. As such, I think I'd go with the maroon.

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fourwheelzone Avatar
fourwheelzone Alexander R
Bathgate, West Lothian, UK   GBR
Chuck:

It's not so simple. The Gold Seal service covered all BMC vehicles throughout their economic life (and beyond) and in 1965 that meant a range of 293 engines and 175 gearboxes. Only a BMC dealer could supply and fit these units - costing about 60 percent of a brand new item - which came upgraded to the latest specs where possible and with a 12 month warranty. Gold Seal was not a cheap option and such items on an MGA today say something interesting about the car's history. Worth keeping, IMHO.

Alex

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cschaefer Silver Member Chuck Schaefer
West Chicago, IL, USA   USA
Alex, I am not trying to minimize the value of a Gold Seal engine. I do understand that it was the "gold standard" for rebuilt engines in the BMC family. Where I question the value is in 2013. While the Gold Seal is a nice talking point and certainly a nice engine in a survivor car, especially if you have the service paperwork showing that engine as a replacement. However, in a restored car, I'm not quite sold. What would you do when the Gold Seal engine is rebuilt? Now it would not have the pedigree of a fatory replacement. A rebuilt Gold Seal engine would be the same functionally, quality and relibility as a rebuilt numbers matching engine. What color would you paint it then?

We may just have to agree to have different opinions.

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mgageoff Avatar
mgageoff Geoff Howard
Ashburn, VA, USA   USA
Interesting take. I know you were on the edge of your seat waiting to find out my opinion, but for what it's worth it seems like as long as you have an engine with a number that indicates it was a gold seal, it makes sense (to me) to always keep the color that matches that history. It also makes sense (to me) to always keep the original engine number. If I were buying in 2013, I'd count a "gold seal" engine of the right color about the same as an original "matching number" (knowing that with MGA that is usually a little imprecise) car in desirability, unless you could prove that the gold seal went with that car, in which case it would count the same as "matching number". I don't know what "count" means except that I'd ascribe some value to originality, or at least "plausible originality".

quote=cschaefer,2458083,2460322]
Alex, I am not trying to minimize the value of a Gold Seal engine. I do understand that it was the "gold standard" for rebuilt engines in the BMC family. Where I question the value is in 2013. While the Gold Seal is a nice talking point and certainly a nice engine in a survivor car, especially if you have the service paperwork showing that engine as a replacement. However, in a restored car, I'm not quite sold. What would you do when the Gold Seal engine is rebuilt? Now it would not have the pedigree of a fatory replacement. A rebuilt Gold Seal engine would be the same functionally, quality and relibility as a rebuilt numbers matching engine. What color would you paint it then?

We may just have to agree to have different opinions.
[/quote]



Geoff Howard
http://mgaexperiment.blogspot.com
Now Playing on the Blog (8/8/2013): Don't Blow Your Top

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Bandersnatch Avatar
Bandersnatch Larry Wheeler
Hillsboro, OR, USA   USA
1957 MG MGA "Rosie 2"
I'll keep it short. One more vote for gold - it's obviously not the original engine, so emphasize its unique heritage.



Do you know why the British don't make computers? They can't figure out how to make them leak oil!

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fourwheelzone Avatar
fourwheelzone Alexander R
Bathgate, West Lothian, UK   GBR
Chuck:

I think it’s fair to say that a Gold Seal unit’s history started at the point it received its GS-specific serial code; what it was before no longer mattered and whatever happened to it after that the engine’s origins as a GS unit remain. The appropriate colour is thus surely gold.

In the UK the engine change would by law be recorded in the RF60 logbook, dated and endorsed by the Licensing Authority.

As to gearboxes - in 1970 the previous owner of my Coupe had a Gold Seal gearbox fitted. The original smooth-case box vanished into oblivion, replaced by a ribbed-case gearbox with late 3-bearing MGB internals. A considerable improvement over the original setup – and of course it was painted gold. Although this finish now looks pretty tatty, as I no longer have the original paperwork the colour (and the decals) remain the only obvious clues to the internal changes, so gold it stays. I hope the next owner takes the hint!

Alex

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Neil MG Avatar
Neil MG Neil McGurk
Cumbria, UK   GBR
1956 Morris Minor
1958 MG MGA
1960 MG MGA
1961 MG MGA    & more
Good point Alex, regarding the logbook. Although it was required, it was often not done, so it would be interesting to hear if Colins V5C shows the original number or the GS number. I think if it were my car then that would definitely convince me to keep (or restore) it gold.

My other reasoning would be that the only time anyone would see it is if the bonnet was up and they were interested enough in the car to be looking at the engine bay and the gold seal engine is something interesting!

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TJS Avatar
TJS T J Smith
Soulbury, Bucks, UK   GBR
I have decided to resume my search for a MGA, flexible as to model, less so when it comes to colour ... I really like Iris Blue. Having looked at a "recently restored" car .... (1989 isn't my definition of recent!) with no supporting receipts and zero history the car in the attached link caught my eye.

https://classicmotorhub.com/showroom/1962-mga-1600-mk-ii-roadster/

The engine has been replaced with a Gold Seal unit, as described by the dealer

"From the extensive history file we know that the original engine was replaced in December 1968 with a factory supplied ‘Gold Seal’ engine. The invoice from Wadhams of Reigate shows the cost of the replacement engine being £58 which was a lot cheaper and quicker than trying to repair the original on what was then just an every day car."

From the photographs it is still wearing its gold paint on the block and to my mind is now part of the cars history.

Any UK members know this car?

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mgaex189 Avatar
mgaex189 Gold Member Giovanni Delicio
Obrigheim, Rheinpfalz, Germany   DEU
1955 MG MGA 1500 "C2"
1955 MG MGA 1500 "4-seater"
1955 MG MGA 1500 "C1"
1960 MG MGA 1600 Coupe    & more
The cylinder head is from an MGB !!!

Do you know the Body# ?

Gio

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TJS Avatar
TJS T J Smith
Soulbury, Bucks, UK   GBR
The only information I have is from the dealer link above, so body number is unknown. The car has passed 10 out of 10 MOT tests in the past 13 years, with no advisory items, during which it has covered a total of 540 miles.

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mgaex189 Avatar
mgaex189 Gold Member Giovanni Delicio
Obrigheim, Rheinpfalz, Germany   DEU
1955 MG MGA 1500 "C2"
1955 MG MGA 1500 "4-seater"
1955 MG MGA 1500 "C1"
1960 MG MGA 1600 Coupe    & more
Could you ask the dealer for the VIN and Body# ?

On attached pic you may see where the Body# is located.

Gio


Attachments:
1962-MGA-1600-MK2-Roadster-9.jpg    47.1 KB
1962-MGA-1600-MK2-Roadster-9.jpg

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