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rear leaf spring bushings

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dogeddie Avatar
dogeddie Silver Member Andy L
Kaukauna, WI, USA   USA
I am replacing the rear leaf spring bushings for my 1975 midget. I have a few questions. I am looking at the Moss catalog page 46.

1) in the photo for the front of the leaf spring, it is enclosed by some plates. The catalog diagram for parts #13 and #13A list a bush supplied with the spring, and a bolt. I assume I can leave the front alone and just do the back as I don't plan to replace the leaf springs? Or do most replace the whole works? They don't really seem in bad shape.
Edit - VB catalog page 61 shows it better. Should I pull the front bracket - part #15 and replace the bushings - part # 10? It looks like VB sells the bushings separate from the spring.

2) the part number for the back bushes is #18, listed as a shackle bush. It says it ships with 8 pieces. Can I assume that they are the top and bottom of the shackle plate, part # 23 - and NOT the front of the leaf spring at all? Trying to account for where 8 would go.

3) on the right side in order to replace the bushings, it looks like the shackle plate will hit the gas tank on removal. Would we want to cut the shackle plate to remove it, and reinstall backwards to what it is now in the photo? Is that possible?

Sorry for so much BS - I have a few months of winter waiting I'm taking care of now!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-03 12:45 PM by dogeddie.

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76lucas Avatar
76lucas Gold Member Josh L
Floyd, VA, USA   USA
1978 MG Midget 1500
1979 MG Midget 1500 "Blue "parts" Car"
1999 Subaru Legacy "Daily Driver"
Here's my suggestions. Yes replace the front bushing. Since you can't really see it there is no way to know the condtion of it. Chances are if the rear ones are bad so are the front ones. Number 18 in the VB is the bolts not the back bushes. But yes there are 8 bushings for the rear. One on either side of the spring eye and one on either side of the shackle bracket. That's four per side two sides total of 8 meaning that all you get are 8 rubber bushings. Can't remember if I pulled my tank or not so can't help you there. My last suggestion is buy new U-bolts if you decide to replace all the bushings and pads you'll need them.



If you never try to do it You will never be able to do it

Kerr Avatar
Kerr Platinum Member Norm Kerr
Ann Arbor, MI, USA   USA
no need to touch the gas tank: you can remove the shackle mounting bracket from the trunk floor, and for re-assembly you can put the bolt in the correct direction (for next time)

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ice Avatar
ice Gold Member Larry Ice
Lawrenceville, GA, USA   USA
X2 what Josh says! Might as well replace all the bushings at one time while you have the car jacked up.



Iceman

Atlanta GA

60 AH MK1
62 AH MKII
67 Midget
71 Midget

NickC Avatar
NickC Silver Member Nick Cherau
Fredonia, NY, USA   USA
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Little B"
2004 Honda Civic "Ticket-in-waiting"
If you decide to replace the two front spring bushings you'll find that they are flanked by a couple of nylon washers. BMC part #AHA 7179. These are NLA. Moss Europe still shows them in their catalog, Moss Motors doesn't. After some research I found an exact replacement for them. Midwest Fastener #72873, 64 x 1.310 x .120. They come in a box of ten. I got mine from Menards, cost me 3.60 the box of ten plus the shipping for a total of 11.38 . Some fleabayers are asking $15 bucks each for them. Yowza!

Update: I just checked Moss Europe and they are now available. I wonder if they're getting them from Midwest spinning smiley sticking its tongue out Still at £.37 each, and you'll need 4, I'll bet that with the excessive shipping being charged now between here and merry old Britain you'll do better from Menards.

Wow! I just finished the cumbersome Moss Europe check out in order to see what the shipping would be --- are you ready? ---- 33 pounds!!!! For four little plastic washers that you could pop into an envelope.

Fastenal carries one that would work also. Probably easier to get as there are Fastenal stores everywhere. https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/76067 . 5/8" x 1.000" OD Grade 6/6 Natural Nylon General Purpose Flat Washer Fastenal Part No. (SKU) 76067



Nick Cherau
Fredonia, NY
1971 Midget MkIII "Little B"
2004 Honda Civic Si Hatchback "200K and still a blast"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-03 03:07 PM by NickC.

dogeddie Avatar
dogeddie Silver Member Andy L
Kaukauna, WI, USA   USA
Thank you!! Nick, thanks for the specifics on the washers. The VB catalog shows part #13 and #14 as washers - is that what you refer to?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-03 04:50 PM by dogeddie.

S1 Elan Kurt. Appley
Akron, Ia., USA   USA
It's been my experience that replacing just the shackle bushings with hard urethane will make a HUGE difference in the cars handleing while changing the front spring bushings will do little. IMO, unless there is obvious major wear in the front bushings I wouldn't go to the trouble of doing more than the shackle bushings. Definitely change them to urethane. The red Prothane, and as Norm mentions, drop the whole bracket.

Kurt

dogeddie Avatar
dogeddie Silver Member Andy L
Kaukauna, WI, USA   USA
THAT'S what I wanted to hear! Thanks Kurt!!

dogeddie Avatar
dogeddie Silver Member Andy L
Kaukauna, WI, USA   USA
I went out to look, and the "trunk side" of two of the 3 bolts that secure the shackle mounting bracket are hidden under a support beam in the trunk. Is it realistic to pull these 3 from the bottom without a need to reach the "nut" side of the bolt?- because 2 are inaccessible. I appreciate any suggestions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-05 09:48 PM by dogeddie.

Kerr Avatar
Kerr Platinum Member Norm Kerr
Ann Arbor, MI, USA   USA
My recollection is from '75 all 6 nuts are welded to the inside boot floor, so that access to them being restricted by bumper reinforcements wouldn't be a problem.

Sprite1956 Roger Parry-Jones
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia   AUS
Nick,

Thanks for the info. I'm slowly 'renovating' my '70 Midget and had forgotten about the washers (no longer there!).
The RHD ''batchelor lean" was addressed by swapping side to side and all bushes will be changed for polyurethane (including the spring saddle) but I'm unsure about obtaining nylon strips to replace the worn/missing ones (between the spring leaves). Does anyone have an idea of what grade/thickness/type they were originally? Do they go full length or are they just at the ends? Sorry, my 'expertise' (if I have any) relates to the earlier, quarter elliptic, set-ups, and breaking every rule in the book until I understand why I have to follow directions. As the Paul Kelly song goes ' I've done all the dumb things' but just some times....I get it right!

Carry on!

Roger

NickC Avatar
NickC Silver Member Nick Cherau
Fredonia, NY, USA   USA
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Little B"
2004 Honda Civic "Ticket-in-waiting"
Leaf springs aren't as simple as they look. This informational tutorial - https://www.performanceonline.com/blog/2009/09/top-14-spring-questions-answered/ - does a good job of explaining some of the reasons why rebuilding your old springs improperly could result in catastrophic failure. Interleaf friction is an important part of spring design and relates to ride comfort and vehicle handling. More importantly is that any looseness of the U-bolts will result in unexpected and abrupt changes in steering. Could either put you in the ditch or into a head-on collision. Therefore after installing a set of new springs it's a good idea after a couple of hundred miles to recheck the nuts. There is no torque value because of the squishyness of the rubber pad, or the polyurethane pad. Do a search here for"Bolt torque - rear axle U-bolt" and you'll find lots of good info. Lastly, as new Midget springs are so cheap ($125) I would not bother rebuilding them.

I did a fairly intensive search for information on what kind, and what the dimensions were, for the interleaf ant-friction material. It looks to be a closely guarded secret held by the spring builders guild. A guild formed back in 1804 when leaf springs were invented by Obadiah Elliot in London.



Nick Cherau
Fredonia, NY
1971 Midget MkIII "Little B"
2004 Honda Civic Si Hatchback "200K and still a blast"

dogeddie Avatar
dogeddie Silver Member Andy L
Kaukauna, WI, USA   USA
In reply to # 3886850 by Kerr My recollection is from '75 all 6 nuts are welded to the inside boot floor, so that access to them being restricted by bumper reinforcements wouldn't be a problem.

Thanks Norm

dogeddie Avatar
dogeddie Silver Member Andy L
Kaukauna, WI, USA   USA
In order to change the shackle bushings, and I have to remove the shackle mounting brackets from the trunk as Norm mentioned - will I have to remove the U bolts at the center on the spring to drop the spring low enough to switch out the bushings? Sorry - I just want to order everything at once.

Kerr Avatar
Kerr Platinum Member Norm Kerr
Ann Arbor, MI, USA   USA
it is not necessary, simply support the axle and springs assembly with a floor jack, while you remove and replace the front and rear stuff from the springs

If you get stuck, and if the fronts won't come out without a press or some flame, though, then you will have to undo those U bolts, so it is maybe not a bad idea to order them (and the rubber pads) just in case.

Norm

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