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Rear Brakes... I'm stuck! A little help please?

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RobbyJoe Avatar
RobbyJoe Rob Heib
Stanwood, WA, USA   USA
OK, I went ahead and ordered up a new rear brake kit from NW Import parts. Drums, pads, springs, wheel cylinders, and flexible bike line. This is my first brake job and wanted to have everything new so I have a good baseline on my "new to me" '73 Midget. My brakes were spongy and the rear adjusters were seized, and during disassembly of LR brakes, I noticed the brake pads were put on wrong (forward pad flipped).

I read up on this site and watched some YouTube videos by John Twist of University Motors. I even printed up the great diagram from theSpridgetguru page to make sure I have everything connected correctly. My problem is that now that I have everything assembled, I can't fit the new (or old) drums back over the brake shoes. My brake adjuster (now freed up) is backed all the way out and I went so far as to unscrew the bleeder valve completely and disconnected the brake line, thinking maybe the pistons were out a bit. They're pushed in as far as I can do by hand and all springs attached.

Any ideas on what I should do next? Here's a pic of my work so far. I'm probably missing something obvious. I walked away before I got frustrated... :-)

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RobbyJoe Avatar
RobbyJoe Rob Heib
Stanwood, WA, USA   USA
Oh, and how in the world am I supposed to get that little spring ear over the handbrake lever? confused smiley

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ice Avatar
ice Gold Member Larry Ice
Lawrenceville, GA, USA   USA
Rob, have you replaced the flex brake line that attaches to the rear end splitter? Lot of owners forget to replace that line and it can cause all kinds of problems. It might look ok but can be bad on the inside...coupla bucks is all to replace it. While you have the flex line disconnected try to push the shoes together (since no pressure will be n the system) and see if the drums fit?



Iceman

Atlanta GA

60 AH MK1
62 AH MKII
67 Midget
71 Midget

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ice Avatar
ice Gold Member Larry Ice
Lawrenceville, GA, USA   USA
Rob, check our library, someone has attached a schematic on how the rear brakes should look when assembled correctly!

OBTW, how bout going into your profile and add the year of your car? Makes a lot quicker for everyone to know what year car you have w/o having to include it in every msg. Done once and that's it!



Iceman

Atlanta GA

60 AH MK1
62 AH MKII
67 Midget
71 Midget

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RobbyJoe Avatar
RobbyJoe Rob Heib
Stanwood, WA, USA   USA
Thanks Larry, I just updated my profile with vehicle data, picture to be added soon.

I haven't replaced the flex line yet, but do have it. the hard line is currently disconnected from the wheel cylinder and the bleeder fitting is vey loose. I would think the cylinder would be easy to push in by hand at this point and assume its all the way retracted now. The diagram I have was downloaded from this site and seems to be the one that is referenced in most brake posts, so I think it matches what I've done except for the spring ear over the hand brake lever for anti-rattle. The drums just barely won't fit... I even tried the old drums, just in case.

Rob

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PeterC Avatar
PeterC Platinum Member Peter Caldwell
Madison Wisconsin, USA   USA
The adjuster ends of both shoes appear to be resting on the adjuster housing rather than into the wedgies slots. Just pry one shoe out and take a look.

Peter c


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1974MGMidget Avatar
1974MGMidget Silver Member Jack Orkin
Grayson, GA, USA   USA
Also, while checking, make sure the adjuster tappets are in the right way. IIRC, they can be inserted incorrectly.

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oleanderjoe Avatar
oleanderjoe Gold Member Joseph Baba
Fresno, CA, USA   USA
ROB: Ran across this before. One on a Morris Minor 1100 and a Nash Metropolitan. >>>> Same as Sprite/Midget. Talked to three parts suppliers and was told basically the same thing. The pad material is a "LITTLE" thicker since I guess it is supposed to make up for drums that have been turned. ?????? HMMMMM YUP, my thoughts exactly. WHAT ??????, The NASH shoes were only about 1/8" too wide for the drums >>>1/16" each side. SOOOOO????? TURN THE DRUM ????? or grind a 1/16" off both of the shoe ends where they contact the adjusted. <<<< DID that. Worked fine. Your Call. Just FYI. Have FUN.

In reply to # 3907104 by RobbyJoe OK, I went ahead and ordered up a new rear brake kit from NW Import parts. Drums, pads, springs, wheel cylinders, and flexible bike line. This is my first brake job and wanted to have everything new so I have a good baseline on my "new to me" '73 Midget. My brakes were spongy and the rear adjusters were seized, and during disassembly of LR brakes, I noticed the brake pads were put on wrong (forward pad flipped).

I read up on this site and watched some YouTube videos by John Twist of University Motors. I even printed up the great diagram from theSpridgetguru page to make sure I have everything connected correctly. My problem is that now that I have everything assembled, I can't fit the new (or old) drums back over the brake shoes. My brake adjuster (now freed up) is backed all the way out and I went so far as to unscrew the bleeder valve completely and disconnected the brake line, thinking maybe the pistons were out a bit. They're pushed in as far as I can do by hand and all springs attached.

Any ideas on what I should do next? Here's a pic of my work so far. I'm probably missing something obvious. I walked away before I got frustrated... :-)



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RobbyJoe Avatar
RobbyJoe Rob Heib
Stanwood, WA, USA   USA
Well crap, I did take the brake adjuster assembly completely apart to clean everything really well, and it wouldn't surprise me if I put the little "wings" back in the wrong way. I can't seem to find a good picture or explanation of how they should be inserted. I just put them in so the adjuster screw would screw into the bevel that the wings make when they are placed "bevel toward the backing plate" if that makes sense? Did I flip them? Any links to a good adjuster assembly write up or pic would be a real help. My Haynes manual says nothing about the orientation of those pieces...

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oleanderjoe Avatar
oleanderjoe Gold Member Joseph Baba
Fresno, CA, USA   USA
ROB: From the way that post (#9) reads, you did it RIGHT. The shoes are just a "TICK" oversize. Sometimes the "Varnish/Schellack" stuff they put on the steel can interfere. Don't jump to "CONTUSIONS" If the Adjuster wedges were in backward, the shoes would be WAY CAM'ED out,.Your picture looks kind of normal, smileys with beer

MOSS Catalog page shows it correctly. Wedge or 45 sides towards the backplate. Carry On.

In reply to # 3907134 by RobbyJoe Well crap, I did take the brake adjuster assembly completely apart to clean everything really well, and it wouldn't surprise me if I put the little "wings" back in the wrong way. I can't seem to find a good picture or explanation of how they should be inserted. I just put them in so the adjuster screw would screw into the bevel that the wings make when they are placed "bevel toward the backing plate" if that makes sense? Did I flip them? Any links to a good adjuster assembly write up or pic would be a real help. My Haynes manual says nothing about the orientation of those pieces...



IN ALL SUBJECTS.: For those who believe, no proof is needed. For those who don’t believe, no proof is possible.

"Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exists and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough"
Sir Henry Royce
co-founder of Rolls Royce .

"BENJAMIN FRANKLIN" >>(Expanded) The bitterness of poor quality (or Crappy Workmenship) remains LONG AFTER the Sweet Taste of Low Price is forgotten.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-11 10:25 PM by oleanderjoe.


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refisk Avatar
refisk Rick Fisk
Frankenmuth, MI, USA   USA
Rob,

It sounds like you have the adjusters assembled correctly. I noticed your new brake shoes don't have the 1 inch cut back they should have per this drawing. That could make a difference.

Peter C. may be onto something too. The shoes should look like this on the bottom. Also notice the cutback on the rear shoe.

Edit: forgot to include the drawing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-11 10:42 PM by refisk.


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RobbyJoe Avatar
RobbyJoe Rob Heib
Stanwood, WA, USA   USA
Rick, looks like there’s definitely a difference in my shoes. I’m going to call the folks at NW Imports tomorrow and see what they have to say. They specialize in British cars and have quite an online catalog, so I assumed they’d be good suppliers. Prices about the same as Miss, but a lot closer to me so shipping was faster. Might have just learned a good lesson. I’ll know more tomorrow when I get back to the car. At least I have a few things to look at now...

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hpmowog Avatar
hpmowog Karl Keiger
I ran into this problem once before, but it was a DPO problem not a parts fitment problem.

On the car in question, the car had leaking wheel cylinders, worn out brake shoes, and worn out drums when I got it. I replaced all of them but couldn’t get the drums over the shoes. It turns out the DPO had modified the adjuster wedges by welding some extra metal on them to make them longer in order to squeeze a little more life out of the worn out drums and shoes!

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jmac Avatar
jmac Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Jere McSparran
Greenup, IL, USA   USA
1971 MG Midget "Joy Ride"
1978 MG Midget "Therapy"
1978 MG Midget "(SOLD)"
In my humble opinion, IMHO, (and "humble" might be a bit of a stretch of the truth) the cut back looks more like 3/4" rather than a full inch but the cut back shouldn't matter. The pads should be the same curvature as the drum so whether you have a cut back or not should not make a difference especially with the adjuster all the way out.

It appears to me that if the adjuster is all the way out and the 2 angled pieces are touching, or almost touching in the center that the shoes should fit into the each side of the adjuster housing further than they are. There is a bit of a tab that sticks out on the adjuster piece, I think to stabilize it in housing, I think your shoes are riding up on this tab and not down into the adjuster piece completely. (see the picture below)



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Norsk62 Avatar
Norsk62 Lyle Anderson
Renton, WA, USA   USA
1974 MG MGB "Braken"
Rob

I have purchased a lot of parts from Steve at NW Import parts. Call him to let him know the fit issue you are having and return the shoes.

With the exception of EBC and Classic Gold brake shoes & Pads that are made to OEM standards/dimensions, all other brands are relined brakes and thickness can vary . We just discussed this at the Eastside MG Club meeting last Saturday.

Try contacting British Parts NW. They stock both EBC and Classic Gold.

Oh and looking at your photos and the backing plates. You might want to also look at your axle seals. The old brake dust looks oily/wet.

Hope this helps.

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