Took a couple of knocks to the nugget, eh?

I have a Midget I’ll sell you for 20k.

I think it is great the value is going up as maybe it will make our repair investments less crazy...lol.

That one sold just shy of $11k, and it looks very well sorted. I would have NOT converted the fenderwells with flares front and back but that's the only way to fit those wheels. The top of the early grilles and the forward edge of the hood is ALMOST impossible to have line up right every time. A good example of these cars being cheap sports cars. My original survivor 74 has the tinniest hood sound when it shuts, but it does it with perfect panel lines.

I find Datsun/Nissans in general sound tinny.

If anyone is interested, the Midget I originally posted a link to DID NOT sell for $19,950.00. In fact, it looks like there were no bidders or watchers. It will be interesting to see if Park Place returns the car to the auction sites for a smidge less. Like maybe knock the "1" off the front of the asking price. Should get some spirited bids then!

Lets call a shovel a garden implement.

By the prose of Hagerty, its a #3 car, "fresh paint job", "new correct interior", "some incorrect parts". It appears to be a nice car to the average guy's eyes. Stained tunnel carpet, wrong gearbox.

I don't write the "rules" for collectors, but their "valuation tool" says under $4k. Even a #2 is under $9k, and that car, no matter how tarted up by some purveyor of fine motor cars, clearly isn't a "2" by definition.

Live by the sword...

Grin!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-06 07:44 PM by Sarge101st.

Sarge101st, I hear ya! Just got my copy of Classic Motorsports magazine yesterday. A friend signed me up for a subscription a while back, I wouldn't have paid to get this periodical. Way too much auction coverage and evidently sponsored by current manufacturers page after page. No meat on the bones of this mag for the average Joe restorer.

Anyway, there in the center spread was the TOP 5 CARS YOU SHOULD BUY NOW. A 1970s Datsun 240Z, which was an economical alternative to a Toyota 2000GT (???), was $20k in top condition. Don't even get me started about which Porsches we should be buying...seems this issue was sponsored by Porsche.

My takeaway: I won't be dropping 20k on a weekend car, even if I'm part of an auto crossing team. I am investing in the "smiles per miles" ROI. "Nuf said.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-08 09:59 AM by littlecars.

Let me explain the reasoning behind my last posting, which appears to slam a car and a dealer in a way we often see on this forum now, unfairly or not is left to one's own interpretation. There is a point to be made, though.

If our heart's desire is that our cars are destined to become collectables, and people think that's somehow healthy for the hobby, to some degree what I typed will become inarguable. Cars as collectable are judged only on the merits of originality and authenticity, so that judgement will become more and more rigid and inflexible the more "desirable" they become. The car in question is a good example. It will not matter the work, time, treasure, whatever; if its done wrong by concours standards it will be pretty much unsellable. This car, with a five speed gearbox many here would currently consider a plus, is incorrect. Period. There is no mercy in that world.

I want nothing to do with the stereotype of the American car hobby that is put forth to the public; right now the sole story the average person sees of the classic car world is Jerry Seinfeld being embroiled in a suit brought by some company (interestingly a company sheltered in the Channel Islands so already this has a bit of an odor about it) who bought a car at the Amelia Island Gooding auction two years ago and is now somehow unhappy and charging malicious intent to defraud. That is the world of valuations rather than value.

It's not a world I want to be perceived to be part of.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-07 01:29 PM by Sarge101st.

They are a local joint here and there stuff is always overpriced.

Brian,

First, Asking prices are NO reflection on the collector car market. They are simply someone's "wish", as in "if you don't ask, the answer is always NO." Actual sale prices define a market.

In many ways, Originality is tied to the value scale. Putting a modern 5 or 6 speed box in a vintage Ferrari would indeed be laughable.

On an MG Midget, with its non-synchro first gear, the Rivergate/Datsun 210 5 speed has been a desirable upgrade since it was introduced, and one will always sell for more than an equal car with its original trans.

Not everyone wants a "concours" car, one that is exactly as it came form the factory... such cars are fraught with compromises, usually dictated by budgets.


My favorite classics are those with "period mods"... improvements we would willingly have done if we had owned that car back in the day.

To each his own... there is no one "right" answer for all.

---

drivers outlook:

. . . . . "Anyone going slower than you drives like a MORON, and anybody driving faster is a FREAKING IDIOT!". . . George Carlin

Ya know, I can’t help but wonder if one day the holy grail of our cars will be something like a Bugeye that is all original.

When you think about it that makes sense. “Survivors” are such a big deal as they somehow managed to make it that long without being molested. Since us Spridgeteers don’t care now and do as we please, it would seem that the Spidget that escapes this practice would be a rare bird indeed.

Only the fullness of time will tell but I can certainly see a time in the future where those cars that still have all original components will bring more money.

Of course those cars aren’t as much fun as a modified car and are more of a “collector” car. You can’t have as much fun with a collector car either.

It’s kinda like those who collect vintage Hot Wheels cars that are still in the package.

If you show me a Hot Wheels car still in the package I’ll show you someone who was a kidin the past and is an adult now that probably still doesn’t know how to have any fun.

I didn’t have many Hot Wheels when I was a kid (only because I preferred something with an engine) but the few I did own all had skint paint and bent axles.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-08 06:30 PM by GeorgeOhr.

Mike, you are missing our point in the detail, I believe.

Of course "asking" prices are a chimera, &c, and if I'm honest your last could be interpreted as a little condescending, though I won't.

"To each his own" might be true, but only to the point one side of the hobby, with wealth, media attention, et al, makes things by their actions exclusionary to those who constituted a different segment of the hobby.

Of course it hasn't happened in the Spridget world, yet, and all those things you say are currently true, but I'm speaking to that future many seem to think is somehow a good thing without considering the ramifications. I fear it, just because I've already seen it.

The points are;

1) if "values" go up, so do the expenses of ownership even if you already own your cars as most of us here do. Insurance, parts, labour. If it really takes off, such as in the Big Healey world or the Porsche world, the guy with a driver or two can easily be first parked, then priced out of ownership.

2) The point of the last two of my posts was to illustrate what that world would be to most people who seem to think these cars will be more likely to be saved by high value after we're gone. Examples again already exist that support the probability that those cars that now are desirable for many because of things like a Datsun box or LED lights won't be bouyed up equally with the concourse prices dreamt of as somehow healthy.

3) So what happens to those cars? Well, they get redone to concours standard, if the Porsche or Big Healey world is any indication, but the current owner won't see his dreamed-of manna. If a shop doesn't pick that up cheap enough to redo and flip, its scrap or parts. Today's fun is replaced by tomorrows harsh reality of profit/return on investment.

So, if I'm a remotely typical example, my cars will be driven and maintained by me and perhaps my son, unless the desires of some price that fun out of my reach (1) and "values" soar. I hope it doesn't happen, contrary to the wishes of many here. If it does, my cars are maintained survivors, but will be the first in that brave new world to be parts and scrap (2 and 3). Not healthy for them and their longevity. If they do survive they won't fetch much from the "purveyor's of fine motorcars" who would know I can't afford to drive them but they would want to "restore" them. The alternative is my widow will hear the flutter of leathery wings as someone "barnfinds" them and does her a "favour". Might even be a fifteen minute bit of drama on Discovery. (Grin!)

And finally, we, the drivers and the caretakers of survivors, I would say are still in the majority in the LBC world, outside of perhaps the more rarified breeds of today that have already been turned, such as E-types and Big Healeys. Yet, we don't seem to have a voice anymore in the general car hobby in America, the voice drowned out by the constant celebration of the likes of AACA, Pebble Beach, Amelia, et al. As a result, today the public eye sees us all as collectors, wealthy, and profit oriented. I go to a meet and I hear, "How much is it worth?", "When are you going to restore it?" not "How does it drive?" or "What is its history?"

So, no I'm not trying to convince everyone to think as I do, but consider not only how we can accomidate the aims and pleasures of all before we too lose that breadth, but how we can once again put forward an image that cars are fun, there are choices for the beginner that are attractive and well supported and within means. There is something to be enjoyed and the car hobby is not just an arena for the average guy to watch the very wealthy joust each other to make a profit on investment.

We are so lucky to have something very very good as it is. How do we preserve it, nurture it, and importantly show it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-08 03:46 PM by Sarge101st.

My current car was purchased with 25k documented miles. Whereas all my other Midget restorations were performed on cars that passed through many hands, this one appears to have retained everything purchased on day one. Now, I won't be buying a date-coded battery for it any time soon, but I revel each day at the little things that have been left alone for 40 years and appear to be installed by factory hands. Still, this is "the People's Ferrari" and will never sit on the concours field or bring the big resale bucks. I would like to enter it in "best survivor" class some day.

We hope and pray that somehow those in the know don’t spill the beans in mass media. Nothing is sacred or special anymore. Mass media has taken away the sense of discovery.

The things I like and enjoy is because i have a natural appreciation for them for one reason or another.

I’m glad I discovered the “uneducated” genius of the likes of Porsche, Browning and Kalishnakov by my own engineering pursuits rather than have had it regurgitated by media informing me how special it is.

IMO, if someone has to be informed of something being special, then they don’t have the ability to fully appreciate it.

That’s not to be confused with someone turning someone on who “gets it” onto something of mutual interest.

(I do have a personal problem with the media concept as I feel it makes me look like I’m into things because the “magic taking box” in my living room told me to and not because of my own genuine interest. I have a problem with the what I consider special now being known to the general public as just a footnote that’s soon to be forgotten or re-regurgitated as something they actually know about.

I get it that the spreading of such is an industry and it’s some folks bread and butter. I hold nothing against this group and see it only as a sign of the times and the feeding of the mindless masses that cant have an original thought of their own. That’s really what it comes down to: folks need to think for themselves and often times that isn’t the case. It’s not the product that’s the problem; it’s how it’s used and the effect that it has in the real world.

I’ve seen too many business ruined from, “Hey everyone, look at this!!!”

Thanks again to Brian for saying things that need to be said.

Thanks for Mike being here too as I think it’s great to have all segments of the hobby represented here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-08 02:34 PM by GeorgeOhr.

The max reasonable price I've seen is $12k, and that was for showroom quality. Anything beyond that is price gouging. Did a lot of research into pricing, when I bought mine, because I intended to sell it... Now, I can't see letting it go...