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Inexpensive Fuel Injection

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Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd, Florence, KY, USA   USA
Oddly enough, after about 20 years of messing around with Megasquirt I mostly agree. But back then we didn't have the options we have today and the MS promise and allure was a cheap system you could build yourself.

And it was. To get the original MS up and running probably didn't cost me more than a couple hundred dollars out of pocket, less in fact than the OEM Ford junkyard pulled EECIV system it replaced (which had a cruising speed surge that couldn't be eliminated), and for the most part it has worked better. Except for when it hasn't, and there's the rub. When it fails, and it has several times over the years, it isn't possible to simply get another black box from the junkyard, have it flashed, and be back in business, or to carry an inexpensive spare. And as the system has evolved and gotten ever more sophisticated those episodes have grown ever more painful and prolonged.

Today we have much better systems and support that would have amazed us 20 years back. Life is sweet indeed. It's even possible now to use a factory system in a non-standard application with the expectation that it's actually going to work! So where do these aftermarket systems fit in? Precisely where Brian says they do. It's a wonderful thing to be able to remove an antiquated 4bbl carb and bolt on a self contained, self tuning EFI solution. The big three anticipated this option of course but did not pursue it. That was the era of electronic carbs and throttle body fuel injection. But they got off on the wrong foot and never followed through on it because they were all falling all over each other trying to sell the first good muti-port and then the first sequential system. They leaped right over top of the first really good self tuning TBFI, which as we have seen is a thing that motorheads everywhere can appreciate.

So we now have two roughly parallel paths. Multiport and TBFI that have both matured but in completely different markets. They are both now quite good. Which one should you use? An easily answered question. Which one is your engine configured for? If Multiport, use the OEM system. Nothing else even comes remotely close in terms of development time, quality, reliability, availability, and cost of acquisition. But please use something relatively modern so you get the benefits of self-learning, etc. If not you can still choose to retrofit, or use TBFI. The new systems may not all be perfect, and they are still relatively expensive, and a bit involved to install, but it's night and day when time comes to drive.

As for where I'm headed next, I really feel the MS systems have come to the end of the road. They will hang in there for awhile, and the MegaJolt like we put on the Roadmaster has most of the advantages of an OEM system, but they have gotten progressively more expensive to the point that they no longer represent any sort of a bargain and have not for quite a few years now. Essentially they have caught up to Haltech and the others when you look at the cost/benefit analysis. Useful in some special applications but otherwise increasingly uncompetitive. And support is just simply not that good, and in some cases atrocious (MegaShift for example). So I'm done with it. I want a controller that I can grab at the pick-n-pull for $40, pay a few bucks to have it flashed, and carry as a spare. For my purposes it looks very much like the GM ...411 controller fits those needs.

But, for a N/A application, this 4bbl FITech unit looks mighty good, has some competition (also a good thing) and would be easy to replace or upgrade down the road if it fails. I really like that a lot.

Jim

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1744 Avatar
1744 Gold Member Bill Guzman
CA, USA   USA
1973 MG MGB GT "Renegade I GT"
1974 MG MGB "Renegade"
Yes I saw the two barrel set
I think is a better choice. Would an adapter if the present manifold is a 4 barrel
Cost is less for the master kit.
FITech has about 8 or 10 different kits.
I am interested in the 3 deuces on a 302 ci
Really nice set up.
CCE would make the 2 barre if it’s enough demand.

To answer Brian’s post
This is not a replacement for the factory FI
This kits are designed to replace the carburetor nothing else
The factory FI is just that.
FITech does have a specific kit for the LS engine.

The stock 6 cylinder manifold does have a fuel distribution issue. Yes different manifold design for FI will work.
I think Clifford Research May have one.

This units are carbureted vehicles. Simple and affordable like the catalog slogan
“You will never buy a carburetor again”
Will never factory FI



It is our attitude that will determine the outcome


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1744 Avatar
1744 Gold Member Bill Guzman
CA, USA   USA
1973 MG MGB GT "Renegade I GT"
1974 MG MGB "Renegade"
BTW they also have a Quadra jet replacement.
FITech used to be called Professional they had the first units 25! Years ago then came the returned system
Support in the next 10/20 years I don’t see a problem. AIC and throttle positioning sensors are GM
They have a multi port unit.
I love Webber’s Holley Carter same as Edelbrock
97 stronbergs Zinath etc
A time comes when it’s time to look around and see what else is there.
The new Webber look alike fuel injection system is awesome but lots of $$$$
There is a place for everything.
I am a carb person but FI is taking over.
I only have one car with a carburetor the rest are FI. Factory and mega squirt love all three.



It is our attitude that will determine the outcome


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hamondale Silver Member John Hammond
NY, USA   USA
1960 Austin-Healey Sprite "Third Rail"
Good discussion here, lots of insight on the pros and cons of this FI option. I'm the one with the bugeye Sprite with the 3.4L V6, Offenhauser intake, and Holley 390 CFM 4bbl. I'm interested in it. But my Offy manifold is a dual plane manifold. From what I understand, the Edelbrock 4bbl manifold is single plane. Can anyone comment as to whether this FI system, or any of the other throttle body FI systems for replacing 4 bbl carbs, are limited to single plane manifolds, or will they work as intended on a dual plane manifold? Thanks.
H

BMC Avatar
BMC Gold Member Brian Mc Cullough
Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA   USA
In reply to # 3880987 by hamondale ....I'm the one with the bugeye Sprite with the 3.4L V6, Offenhauser intake, and Holley 390 CFM 4bbl.
....But my Offy manifold is a dual plane manifold. From what I understand, the Edelbrock 4bbl manifold is single plane. Can anyone comment as to whether this FI system, or any of the other throttle body FI systems for replacing 4 bbl carbs, are limited to single plane manifolds, or will they work as intended on a dual plane manifold?

First, as your system is already set up this way, the bodywork reflects it with a hole in the bonnet (if memory serves) and going back to SFI manifold would cost, it would be best to stick to something close to what you have- likely you could go either way for total costs about the same, even moving back to the previous system. All that said, I think something like the FI-tech in your case may be good.

Second, I can't comment as a fact, but I would believe that even with a dual plane, this should be a good system. The company that produces them can say for sure, but I don's really see an issue moving into this system with single or dual plane.

-BMC.


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hamondale Silver Member John Hammond
NY, USA   USA
1960 Austin-Healey Sprite "Third Rail"
Brian, thanks for your comments. Your pros and cons post is really informative. And yeah, that's me. I'd like to upgrade to FI, but I also like the look that I already have. I know it's not for everyone, but as Dalton said in Roadhouse, "Opinions vary." I'd lose that look going to port FI. So if I could get a lot of the benefits of FI, even if not the best system available, as still keep the cosmetics that I have, and with a relatively easy conversion, it's worth a look.
John

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ex-tyke Avatar
ex-tyke Graham Creswick
Chatham, ON, Canada   CAN
1976 MG MGB
FITech throttle body on a dual plane intake will work just fine!

Edit: found an on-line comment from the FITech tech folks
https://fitechefi.com/faq/what-is-better-a-dual-plane-or-a-single-plane-manifold/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-26 04:00 PM by ex-tyke.

1744 Avatar
1744 Gold Member Bill Guzman
CA, USA   USA
1973 MG MGB GT "Renegade I GT"
1974 MG MGB "Renegade"
Dual plane /dual port will work better due to the increase of air velocity and in a way longer runners

I wish I had a dual plane offy



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nonracer Gold Member Steve Codianni
AZ, USA   USA
I’ve got a Mustang in my shop with a 302 , dual plane intake and the FI Tech system . So far it runs fine but it’s not on the road yet . I see no issues with a dual plane intake , the TBI style FI is basically a computer controlled carb .......sort of . I’ve had 2 cars with MSD atomic, one with the Edelbrock E Street EFI , one with the Holley Sniper and now this FI Tech on the Mustang, they all seem to be about the same . The Edelbrock seemed to run better right from the start but they all need to “ learn “ from driving . I’m going to be installing 2 Edelbrock Pro Flo 4’s in the near future on small block chevys , these should be much better than the TBI type as they are sequential multi port type with timing control . This system is offered for the Ford 302 and would my first choice on any build if I was starting without an intake and distributor

hamondale Silver Member John Hammond
NY, USA   USA
1960 Austin-Healey Sprite "Third Rail"
Thanks for all of the comments and advice, guys. I think I'm going to switch over to one of these systems on the Offy intake. Not in the next few months though. Most of the work to get my Sprite to it's present state was done in the early 90s, and '99-00. I really need to go through it and fix a lot of things, some being mistakes made in the original build (most of it was pre-internet, so no forums for help like this one), upgrades such as FI, and wear and tear. Realistically, that's going to have to wait until retirement, which hopefully is only a year or two away.
John

1744 Avatar
1744 Gold Member Bill Guzman
CA, USA   USA
1973 MG MGB GT "Renegade I GT"
1974 MG MGB "Renegade"
Keep in mind that that one unit is not “fits all”
FITech units are categorized by hp out put

For av6 3.4 needs they have two
One 4 barrel without ignition capability and a 2 barrel with ignition capabilities.
Both are $995 as master kits includes fuel pump etc



It is our attitude that will determine the outcome


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B-racer Avatar
B-racer Jeff Schlemmer
Shakopee, MN, USA   USA
1950 Willys Jeep Pickup "Ratrod"
1971 MG MGB ~ For Sale ! ~
2014 Dodge Charger
As for turbo or SC application, I believe FiTech is the only one you can get that is actually set up for it. Sniper si NOT!! !! Its a flat out lie in their advertising. It CANNOT sense boost with a single atmosphere MAP sensor, and it has no programming to deal with boost timing retard, but FiTech does. I don't know anyone who would pick the MSD system over these two options, if they have any experience tuning. I'd stick with a crappy Edelbrock carb before using MSD or FAST EFI.

All of these TB systems are limited in tuning capability compared to multi-port. That's not the point. The point is that they stay in tune, and actually IMPROVE tune as you drive - no matter what the altitude or temperature. As good as carbs can be, they can't do that, although factory EFI systems are usually still better.



jeff@advanceddistributors.com

260mgb Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA, USA   USA
John, Unfortunately the Offy Dual Port intake isn't available for the small GM V6. It is, for the Ford 2.8 V6 and the Buick 225,231(oddfire) and 3.8 evenfire V6.

hamondale Silver Member John Hammond
NY, USA   USA
1960 Austin-Healey Sprite "Third Rail"
Jim, yeah, maybe not today, but 30+ years ago Offy made a dual plane manifold for the 2.8L V6. (Man it's hard to believe that much time has gone by since I started the V6 conversion.) I don't think they sold many of them, but that's what I'm running now with a Holley 390. I'm looking at removing the Holley 4bbl and replacing it with a TBI with the same form factor so I can keep the same look.
John


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260mgb Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA, USA   USA
John, Did not know that. I used the intakes with a Buick V6 and 215 years ago in Jeeps.

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