The all-new Front Page News Feed is now live   Read the announcement
MGExp

MG Engine Swaps Forum

In tank HP fuel injection pump

Moss Motors
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

Paul755 Paul H
Fairfax, VA, USA   USA
1974 MG MGB MkIII
1979 MG MGB MkIV "Nemesis"
So, Im looking at my new fancy Moss printed circuit fuel level sender for my 80 B and wondering if I can hack it to add an in-tank fuel pump to it. It has 3 through electrical connections, +10V from the fuel gauge, ground ( its all plastic and one unused terminal which looks like it is for a low fuel indicator, which would make a nice connector for the pump power. A bit of metal fabrication or Amazon hunting for a bracket to hold the pump to the pickup tube. The return can T into the tank vent pipe below the vapor separator.
Is this a case of cranial rectal insertion or is it worth a go ?


The Holley Hydramat looks like it would simplify the fuel pickup and filter sock, but it is expensive.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 03:07 PM by Paul755.

. Hide this ad & support a small business by becoming a Gold Supporting Member

Attachments:
Fuel sender.jpg    15.1 KB
Fuel sender.jpg

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
V8MGBV8 Avatar
V8MGBV8 Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN, USA   USA
But it looks to be all plastic. Can it support the weight?

Jim Blackwood uses some sort of hydramat.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
Paul755 Paul H
Fairfax, VA, USA   USA
1974 MG MGB MkIII
1979 MG MGB MkIV "Nemesis"
I had a look at the plastic and it is reasonably stout, I will give it a stress test ( let my Grandson have it for 10 minutes. He can break anything ) with a pump held to the outlet pipe with a couple of clamps. The other option would be to bolt a an internal bracket through the top of the tank. My initial goal is to see if it can all be done through the fuel sender hole without the need to remove the tank.
May be I should employ the help of a Gynecologist........... I'm told they can rebuild an engine via the exhaust pipe.

In reply to # 3899027 by V8MGBV8 But it looks to be all plastic. Can it support the weight?

Jim Blackwood uses some sort of hydramat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-26 03:36 PM by Paul755.

. Hide this ad & support a small business by becoming a Gold Supporting Member
Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
B-racer Avatar
B-racer Jeff Schlemmer
Shakopee, MN, USA   USA
1950 Willys Jeep Pickup "Ratrod"
1971 MG MGB
2014 Dodge Charger
All of the pumps that mount through the top of the tank with a universal sending unit need a minimum of 7 1/2" tank height, and even that is a tough fit. I don't recall the depth of the MGB tank, but isn't it thinner? You may have to run the current output into an external fuel can with the pump mounted in that? Or run an exposed inline pump.



jeff@advanceddistributors.com

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
Paul755 Paul H
Fairfax, VA, USA   USA
1974 MG MGB MkIII
1979 MG MGB MkIV "Nemesis"
I'm thinking of running it through the side of the tank in the existing fuel sender hole with the fuel pump at a 45 degree-ish angle and using the Hydramat as the pickup. There is no reason that I can think of ( yeh thats not much ) that would require an in-tank pump to be vertical as long as the inlet is low enough down in the tank to always be covered with fuel. Obviously the Hydramat would be an excellent product for that.

In reply to # 3899040 by B-racer All of the pumps that mount through the top of the tank with a universal sending unit need a minimum of 7 1/2" tank height, and even that is a tough fit. I don't recall the depth of the MGB tank, but isn't it thinner? You may have to run the current output into an external fuel can with the pump mounted in that? Or run an exposed inline pump.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
V8MGBV8 Avatar
V8MGBV8 Carl Floyd
Kingsport, TN, USA   USA
Jim B's thread on the Hydramat:

http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?6,56103

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd, Florence, KY, USA   USA
Thing about the hydramat is, it only takes one little nick to ruin it, and it's pretty easy to nick.

Jim

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
MGB567 Avatar
MGB567 Gold Member Barrie Braxton
Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia   AUS
1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"
1979 MG MGB GT V8 Conversion "Darkside"
Are you wedded to internal pump? FWIW I'll be running one of these and mounting it horizontally on the battery box similar to where the SU pump was. I thought I might be going in tank but my EFI guru says not necessary.



Convertible: CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67. Owned since 3/77. 90% original sheet metal. 18GB +40 balanced with almost all new internals. Peter Burgess big valve fast road head. Piper 285. Fidanza FW. Basil's followers and pushrods. TR7clutch. TT exhaust. ARP everywhere. 123 ign. Needham 4synchro c/r box.. Stock rebuilt/replaced suspension. Superpro bushes. New brakes all round including all pipes in SS flex. Interior redone. CAMS approved roll bar and side bars. Lots more. Hybrid of o/e and show/fast road car. Not for sale - it's my toy!

GT: UK car built/sold December '78. Stripped back to bare shell with VW Golf flared guards, flush fit front and rear valances with front guards immovable. Front and rear seams removed,Torana XU1 vents, frenched indicators front & Mk1 rear lights. Powered by 'worked' Rover 5 litre V8 (ex TVR Chimaera) with efi. T5 box. FC IFS. CCE rear attached to Salisbury axle with Quaife. All new interior with MrMikes covers on MX5 seats. Retro4 7x15 rims (zero offset) and 205/55 rubber. Colour: Jaguar Storm. Not for sale - it's my sanity!

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
Paul755 Paul H
Fairfax, VA, USA   USA
1974 MG MGB MkIII
1979 MG MGB MkIV "Nemesis"
No, I have already bought a Walbro in line external pump and 2 x 30 micron filters that are mounted on a plate I had at I intended to bolt up by the battery box. This was just a thought looking at the new fuel level sender and I already have a Delphi internal fuel pump kit that was bought to get an old Range Rover fired up before the motor was pulled out.
In reply to # 3899088 by MGB567 Are you wedded to internal pump? FWIW I'll be running one of these and mounting it horizontally on the battery box similar to where the SU pump was. I thought I might be going in tank but my EFI guru says not necessary.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
Peter-Sherman Avatar
Peter-Sherman Peter Sherman
Melbourne, Australia   AUS
Is the pump skinny enough to fit through the hole? In which case a coil of tightly fitting large diameter tubing could be the antisurge tank, AKA swirlpot. If it is that skinny it probably would go down the filler neck.
Otherwise connect the fuel uptake to a big metal fuelfilter (the SD1 filter or RRover nothing special, $20, soup can size) , thence to a universal high flow, low pressure high suction roller vane pump (peirburge) which in turn feeds a high flow, high pressure low suction rollervane pump (in my case bosh). The low pressure peirburge pulls though the filter which also acts as a antisurge tank. I had it in the corner of the boot for about 2 years, then made up a box and put it behind the rear right wheel under the boot. Just to be neat. Been going since 2003 and more than 100K. I put 37 litres in the 40 litre tank just yesterday, no starvation issues. The gauge needs adjustment however.
You can't have both high suction and high pressure. The high suction low pressure pump will pull through the filter up to about a foot above the top of the tank, on a hot day, without cavitation and has no problem lying on the boot floor.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
TR8todd Avatar
TR8todd Todd Kishbach
Mass, USA   USA
1977 Triumph TR7 "Rally Fraud"
1978 Triumph TR8
1979 Triumph TR7
1980 Triumph TR8    & more
I was on FiTechs site last night and they offer an in tank pump that will work in a tank as shallow as 6". It will adjust up to 14". It comes with flanges so you can install int in any tank. Maybe keep stock pickup/sender and add another opening for this style pump????

I picked up a new in box fuel command center off of facebook marketplace for $200. The guy I bought it from was put off by all of the negative press on the command center vapor lock issues, and went with an inline Walbro pump and the Corvette style filter/regulator/return. Still not sure I want to use the command center, or just do an inline pump. Need to figure out how to fuel two cars. One has an LS3, and one has a 4.6L Rover. Figure the LS3 powered car is going to be mostly track oriented and loud, and since it already has a trunk mounted fuel cell with bottom pickups, I might as well just run an inline system for that car. The 4.6L may or may not get a fuel cell. If I stick with stock gas tank, then that car will get the command center fed by a stock in tank low pressure pump. I went to the site ready to order the 400hp throttle body for the 4.6L car along with the inline fueling kit. Inline kit is out of stock, so I was looking at other options when I found the above mentioned 6" pump. I wanted to order both as a package because you get a reduced price on the two of them. Even thou I will most likely use the fuel command center with the 400hp throttle body kit, I figured I could use the inline pump kit on the LS3 powered car. Back to the drawing board. The LS3 engine is getting the 750HP version of the ultimate LS FiTech system. Plan is to sell off the stock LS3 intake, computer, and throttle pedal. Need to make sure it gets enough fuel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-27 08:33 AM by TR8todd.

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
scott68B Avatar
scott68B Scott Costanzo
Central, OH, USA   USA
1968 MG MGB "GM 5.3 LS4 V8"
This may be slightly off subject but there are several OEM fuel pumps that will fit into a B tank. Here is the one I'm using. It's out of a 2004 GTO. It's returnless so there is only one line out of the tank. The real advantage to it is it employs a venturi as a part of the plumbing inside the bucket which draws fuel from the tank to keep the bucket full of fuel....no starvation at all to this point and I run the tank to below a quarter regularly. Works really well and was very cheap.


Attachments:
GTOReturnlessFuelPump.jpg    58.1 KB
GTOReturnlessFuelPump.jpg

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd, Florence, KY, USA   USA
Scott, does that system regulate the fuel at the pump, or at the fuel rail? Being an LS4 install, my guess is that it uses a PWM driver for the pump motor maybe? Which would also mean a pressure sensor/transducer located somewhere to send feedback to the controller. Can you confirm?

Jim

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
scott68B Avatar
scott68B Scott Costanzo
Central, OH, USA   USA
1968 MG MGB "GM 5.3 LS4 V8"
Jim,
The pressure regulator is in the the bucket. The bleed off flow from the regulator is used to "power" the venturi. The pump assembly, in effect, is not "returnless" as the bleed off functions like the return line in a two line system. The whole thing is contained within the bucket. I don't believe there is a PWM in this system. I've included a video of the venturi in action as well as a picture of the pump/regulator/venturi assembly.



Attachments:
GTOReturnlessFuelPumpRegulatorAssembly.jpg    46.5 KB
GTOReturnlessFuelPumpRegulatorAssembly.jpg

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd, Florence, KY, USA   USA
Looks like a very good design to me.

Just to state the obvious, this is for EFI.

Jim

Was this post helpful or interesting?
Yes No Thank
. Hide this ad & support a small business by becoming a Gold Supporting Member

To add your reply, or post your own questions




Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster