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Brake Calipers - TR6 Upgrade

Posted by workinearly 
workinearly Avatar
David Gable
Fl, USA   usa

Has anyone installed Toyota 4 pot calipers as per the TR6 upgrade? I'm looking for a cheap front brake upgrade on my BGT and I have a set of MGC swivel axles laying around so I thought since MGC and TR6 calipers are the same that I might give it a whirl. I don't know if the Cressida rotors would work on a C. Aren't MGC rotors larger than TR6? Even stock C rotors, redrilled, of course, would be an improvement over stock MGB.
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gatordoc1979 Avatar
Thomas Johnson
Gulf Breeze, Florida, USA   usa
1963 MG MGB
1968 MG MGC GT
1979 MG MGB

I am actually in the process of installing 1981 Toyota Land Cruiser calipers on my '68 CGT. It has had the stock MGC rotors and stock type 16P calipers, but the right front caliper has begun to leak on four occasions, including this past weekend. I took the plunge on Father's Day and bought a set of them - they were about $155 for the set, and were in stock. I did find out, however, that you either have to modify the dust cover inside the rotor, or leave it off (I did this). If you Google "Bob Elwin MGC V8" there are some good pics of the finished product on his car.
Tom Johnson
CGT #3577

Attachments:
LandCruiserCaliper1.jpg (21.2 KB) –
LandCruiserCaliper1.jpg

workinearly Avatar
David Gable
Fl, USA   usa

Thanks for the info. It seems that the MGC's rotors are 11.1" X .50", TR6's are 10.875" X .50" and Cressida's are 10.71" X .83-.87" and are vented.


Do you know of any vented discs that will fit a C?


http://www.turbo-tr6.info/tr6_brake_install.htm




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2008 04:19PM by workinearly.
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bills Avatar
Bill Spohn
W. Vancouver, BC, Canada   can

workinearly Wrote:
Quote: Thanks for the info. It seems that the MGC's rotors are 11.1" X .50", TR6's are 10.875" X .50" and Cressida's are 10.71" X .83-.87" and are vented.
Do you know of any vented discs that will fit a C?

Why bother? Are you going to be racing it? You won't be able to use it on the street in a way that would make a difference and the stock brakes will do just fine.



Bill Spohn www.rhodo.citymax.com/carstuff.html
1958 MGA Twincam (race car (170 bhp)),1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe (98 bhp)
1969 MGC roadster (175 bhp), 1957 Jamaican MGA (200 bhp)
1965 Jensen CV8 (375 bhp), 1971 Jensen Interceptor (350 bhp)
1969 Lamborghini Islero S (350 bhp), 1988 Fiero GT turbo (300 bhp)
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe (350 bhp)
West Vancouver BC

workinearly Avatar
David Gable
Fl, USA   usa

Hi, Bill. I know that you race and that you know much more about these cars than I ever will but I'm not, and have never been, happy with stock brakes. Maybe I just drive too fast sometimes but I've had too many different MGB's on too many occasions overheat the brakes. I don't think that just sliding the tires makes a car's brakes sufficient. I'd like to be able to haul it down fast from whatever speed I choose to drive and not worry if I'll be able to do it again in a minute or so. I don't see why my old sports cars shouldn't be able to stop as quickly and as often as my 13 year old station wagon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2008 07:46PM by workinearly.
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bills Avatar
Bill Spohn
W. Vancouver, BC, Canada   can

workinearly Wrote:
Quote: I'd like to be able to haul it down fast from whatever speed I choose to drive and not worry if I'll be able to do it again in a minute or so. I don't see why my old sports cars shouldn't be able to stop as quickly and as often as my 13 year old station wagon.

All that takes is properly working stock brakes and a correct choice of pads.



Bill Spohn www.rhodo.citymax.com/carstuff.html
1958 MGA Twincam (race car (170 bhp)),1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe (98 bhp)
1969 MGC roadster (175 bhp), 1957 Jamaican MGA (200 bhp)
1965 Jensen CV8 (375 bhp), 1971 Jensen Interceptor (350 bhp)
1969 Lamborghini Islero S (350 bhp), 1988 Fiero GT turbo (300 bhp)
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe (350 bhp)
West Vancouver BC

Big6Mark Avatar
Mark M
Emerald Valley, OR, USA   usa
1960 Austin-Healey 3000
1968 MG MGC "Red Tail"
1968 MG MGC
1968 MG MGC GT "The Wreck"
1969 MG MGC GT "The Lump"

Yeah, right. What about the tires? If the tires are not good, quality high performance tires and the suspension won't keep them down on the road aren't you going to just "sliding the tires"?
My C GT stopped very well, but it would also run away from most B's when we hit the twisties because the suspension was better. My Healey almost collected a couple of other Healeys in it's boot once on a rallye, because the suspension was tightened up.
You can't expect the brakes to be the only part of the process. If you intend to drive at whatever speed you chose you should make sure the rest of the car is up to it. Remember "Safety Fast"?
And if the brakes are getting hot, they are doing their job of converting kinetic energy into heat. They're just not getting rid of it!
The MGC kingpin/spindle will NOT fit the MGB suspension. And the MGB uses a different mounting bolt spacing than the MGC/TR6/Toyota truck caliper.
If you still think you need better brakes, check with the people in Britain. There are a couple of 4-piston caliper conversions for the MGB spindles and hubs and even a vented rotor conversion, ala MG RV8. You can even swap out the entire front subframe to one from an RV8.
C Ya,
Mark
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bills Avatar
Bill Spohn
W. Vancouver, BC, Canada   can

Worth repeating, Mark. I've seen guys still running vintage profile tires which are no longer available in current compounds, going on about sticking their racing style brakes on their car - without a hope that they will perform better than the originals for the reasons you state. It is indeed a system and it includes wheels, tires and to a degree suspension.



Bill Spohn www.rhodo.citymax.com/carstuff.html
1958 MGA Twincam (race car (170 bhp)),1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe (98 bhp)
1969 MGC roadster (175 bhp), 1957 Jamaican MGA (200 bhp)
1965 Jensen CV8 (375 bhp), 1971 Jensen Interceptor (350 bhp)
1969 Lamborghini Islero S (350 bhp), 1988 Fiero GT turbo (300 bhp)
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe (350 bhp)
West Vancouver BC

twentyover Avatar
Greg Fast
Burbs of Detroit MI, USA   usa

Mark- kind of OT- Will the B swivel axle work on a C? i know the kingpins are different, but I thought (my bad0 that the swivels were interchangeable
workinearly Avatar
David Gable
Fl, USA   usa

Mark, let's not worry about the obvious.

As for what fits and what doesn't I know that the MGB uses different caliper mounting patterns. That's pretty much assumed if you read my original post.

I was told long ago by someone who knows a lot about MGC's that the swivel axle will physically interchange with a B. The assumption that he was correct, and the fact that MGC's, TR6's and the Toyota's in question share caliper mount bolt spacing, started me thinking about using what I have as the basis for better brakes.

There are several big brake kits sold here in the US that work as well or better than anything available in the UK and for a lot less money. Jim Hall (MG Five Speed Co) lives 30 minutes from me and he sells a great kit using Wilwood four pots and ventilated calipers for $750. I'm just trying to get similar results for less money.

http://www.mgfivespeed.com/

Cheers,
David


filospinato Avatar
Jake Voelckers
Carmichael, CA, USA   usa
1964 MG MGB "The Little Blue Car" ~ For Sale ! ~
1965 MG MGB V8 Conversion "The V8" ~ For Sale ! ~
1967 MG MGB GT ~ For Sale ! ~

I modded a set of Volvo 240 4 pot calipers to have the MGB spacing, guys have been doing this in Oz for a while now. It uses a Nissan vented rotor on an aluminum hub adapter. Fits 14" wheels, don't know about wires. I never got around to making up a set of the adapters beyond the one prototype I made. Calipers are modded and collecting dust. I found that my stock setup is more than sufficient but I did go through all of it.



Click the image to visit my V8 site.


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Big6Mark Avatar
Mark M
Emerald Valley, OR, USA   usa
1960 Austin-Healey 3000
1968 MG MGC "Red Tail"
1968 MG MGC
1968 MG MGC GT "The Wreck"
1969 MG MGC GT "The Lump"

David:
As Jake tried to do I would look into the Volvo caliper as made by Girling. My bodyman was into early Volvos and it seemed that the bolt pattern was 3" like the MGB Lockeed calipers. The early 124's used a two piston caliper and later cars (like 144's perhaps) used 3-pistons and even later cars like 240's used 4-piston calipers.
The problems are that you don't get any more piston area (or hydraulic clamping, just bigger pads) and the 4-piston calipers are for a dual-diagonal braking system that has the top pistons totally separate from the bottom pistons. Two brake hydraulic systems with two separate hose inlets and two bleeders to each caliper. Added complication, but easy to use on a single system by simply running a line from the "bleeder" outlet of one pair of pistons to the "hose in" inlet of the other pair, or adding a splitter in the line like Jake did.
Those 4-piston calipers were also made for both solid rotors and for vented rotors.
The setup used in England is a Princess caliper and a Peugeot rotor, although I don't think this would be easy to find over here.
Perhaps an easier setup would be the MGB GT V8 caliper and rotor setup. Looks like the standard MGB brakes, but uses a 1/2" rotor.
Greg: the kingpins on the MGC are a lot larger diameter than the MGB kingpins. And no luck fitting the MGC kingpin to the MGB arms (or vise versa) as the MGC kingpin has the 5 degree castor built into the top and bottom trunions. The MGB castor is from the entire suspension subframe being tipped back at 5 degrees.
C Ya,
Mark
MGST Avatar
Andrew Metford
Perth, Western Australia, Australia   aus

I have got the Austin Princess 4 piston calipers with Nissan 20mm vebted discs. The discs are the same diameter as standard MGB, I just redrilled the stud pattern to bolt up to the MGB hub as per the originals, no aluminium adaptors etc. 3mm spacer between the caliper and where it bolts up to the lugs on the swivel and presto. Fits under 14" steels and wires.

Having been there and done that, I wouldn't bother again. The Princess calipers weigh a ton, and like Mark said, not much if any extra piston area, hard to get parts, blah blah blah. In my mind the best result for least cash and time outlay would be the Wilwoods from some guy over your side. Pay the cash, bolt it straight on, go driving ( or racing ). Easy.

Can't remember if you said you are keeping the solid disc, or want to go vented. This kit keeps the standard solid disc and gives you a decent 4 piston aluminium caliper, and fits under standard wheels.

http://www.classicconversionseng.com/Improved%20Brake%20Kits.htm

That's nice , but for much better performance, this is what i'm getting when funds allow ( needs 15" wheels though so maybe an extra expense for you - I've already got 15's ).


http://www.classicconversionseng.com/big_brake_kit.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2008 05:01AM by MGST.
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