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Aluminum head

Posted by brandonsan 
Brandon S.
Centreville, MD, USA   usa

Are aluminum cylinder heads still available for the C ? If so where can you get them and how much are they ? Thanks.
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Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

Haven't been any for 20 or more years. IIRC, they were a one time pour and sales were so poor at the time no one dares to try it again...unless it would be Shaun or someone of his ilk.....and deep pockets...devil smiley



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Robert Kirk
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Shaun Holmes
Norwich, Norfolk, United Kingdom   gbr
1963 MG MGB MkI "3330 PE"
1968 MG MGC "Crosby"
1969 MG MGC GT "Lippy"
1969 MG MGC GTS "Yippee"
2005 Land Rover Range Rover

Deep deep pockets, I don't know of anymore alloy heads around, the last lot were made many years ago as Rob says. As with all old alloy castings failures were common, touch wood mines ok.

I did look at having some done on a cnc setup but cost were horrendous for such limited sales, now there is always China!! some nice alloy rads for £199 !

Member Services:
MGC & B racing, incorporating MGCspares from a good used or rare part to remanufactured items to keep your C as you would like it. NEW Alloy items have arrived UK made see website. We do supply MGC MGA and early B alloy radiators from stock in the UK.
ron neal Avatar
Coastal, South Carolina, USA   usa

I remember long ago while living in the UK Brown and Gammons were selling alloy MGC heads and even then they were out of my pay grade. If I would only of saved just a little bit of my beer money I could of bought all they had. Now all I have are fond memories and no parts.

That was during my dark ages when I drove a Austin 1300GT, a Mini and later a Austin Princess. No MG's in my little lock up garage.

Ron
Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

Other than a reduction in weight, I've read little that suggests alloy heads on any A, B or C series, either conventional or cross flow have made any significant gains in HP. I think some of the earlier A series cross flows were reportedly a modest HP gainer.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
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simon58gladiator Avatar
Simon Wilkinson
Colne Classics, Colchester, United Kingdom   gbr
1966 MG MGB "Harvey"
1967 Jaguar Mark 2
1969 MG MGC "Maisie"
1969 MG MGC

I have heard the same said for conventional Robert but I have an MSX crossflow alloy head on my MGB and that replaced a weeping old HRG alloy crossflow. Both are more responsive than with a conventional steel head but I only have my seat of pants driving to tell me that, not power curves. I would maybe guess 10%.....but people would sometimes love another 10% and pay heaps of cash to get it.

Simon.
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Brandon S.
Centreville, MD, USA   usa

I have a crossflow head for my Cooper S but I probably wont use it because it just doesn't look right under the hood. This head, ported by MED was a rocket on my freind's Austin America when you compared it to the old 5 port head that was compleley reworked as well. I was more interested in cooling and weight loss for my C engine.
Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

BTW, Brandon, welcome to the forums!

I think your biggest weight loss will be in your wallet IF you could ever find one.

Any benefit to cooling would be negligible imho. The oil and water coolers/exchangers are where you loose the heat....and the exhaust pipes.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

Member Services:
Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.
Brandon S.
Centreville, MD, USA   usa

In reply to # 2124284 by kirks-auto BTW, Brandon, welcome to the forums!

I think your biggest weight loss will be in your wallet IF you could ever find one.

Any benefit to cooling would be negligible imho. The oil and water coolers/exchangers are where you loose the heat....and the exhaust pipes.


Thanks. I am painting the car this fall / winter with my Father in Winterhaven, Florida. He did a lot of paint repairs on these cars when they were damaged in shipping before they were sent to the dealers. He still paints and still has a lot of interest in these cars. After the car is painted I will be purchasing parts from you and Huffaker will probably build my engine. I might have Joe setup the suspension too.
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chormy Avatar
Shaun Holmes
Norwich, Norfolk, United Kingdom   gbr
1963 MG MGB MkI "3330 PE"
1968 MG MGC "Crosby"
1969 MG MGC GT "Lippy"
1969 MG MGC GTS "Yippee"
2005 Land Rover Range Rover

MINE all mine! lol!

Member Services:
MGC & B racing, incorporating MGCspares from a good used or rare part to remanufactured items to keep your C as you would like it. NEW Alloy items have arrived UK made see website. We do supply MGC MGA and early B alloy radiators from stock in the UK.

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ron neal Avatar
Coastal, South Carolina, USA   usa

Robert
Kinda reminds me of the old days when the Chrysler dealers could not sell a Superbird, not even at give away prices.

Shaun
Very nice indeed.

Ron
Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

Shaun
Looks warped to me....devil smiley



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

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Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

In reply to # 2124551 by ron neal Robert
Kinda reminds me of the old days when the Chrysler dealers could not sell a Superbird, not even at give away prices.

Shaun
Very nice indeed.

Ron

Ron
Lets give due credit please. Superbird=Plymouth. Daytona=Dodge. Chrysler=300 and Imperial. Chrysler never went racing except by defacto with the NHRA quarter milers...



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

Member Services:
Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.
ron neal Avatar
Coastal, South Carolina, USA   usa

Robert

I am not knocking those cars but thought it funny that they would not sell then and now very desirable. Wish I had bought a few. I had an opportunity to buy a 440 Supperbird a few years ago at a good price but to took up too much garage space. Silly boy.

Ron
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Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

Unlike many dealers today who sell super exotics to folks that have no idea what power ratios they are buying, dealers in the 60s probably
Those two cars barely met the "production figures" to allow them on some race tracks as "stock cars". I doubt there were any that were not presold. Mopar in its day, darn near had a patten on showroom max HP engines. Actually dating back to about 1957 give or take.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

Member Services:
Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.
chormy Avatar
Shaun Holmes
Norwich, Norfolk, United Kingdom   gbr
1963 MG MGB MkI "3330 PE"
1968 MG MGC "Crosby"
1969 MG MGC GT "Lippy"
1969 MG MGC GTS "Yippee"
2005 Land Rover Range Rover

In reply to # 2124552 by kirks-auto Shaun
Looks warped to me....devil smiley

Ur mind must match mine then!

Member Services:
MGC & B racing, incorporating MGCspares from a good used or rare part to remanufactured items to keep your C as you would like it. NEW Alloy items have arrived UK made see website. We do supply MGC MGA and early B alloy radiators from stock in the UK.
ron neal Avatar
Coastal, South Carolina, USA   usa

There were some very hot motors made by GM and Ford too but sold very few because they were just too expensive for the average hot rod car buyer.

Agree that an alloy head for a MGC would be a rare find and would probably not be cost effective.

Ron
markmga Avatar
Mark Wellard
Brisbane, QLD, Australia   aus

If anyone was remaking the heads - would cross-flow be possible? I certainly like the effect the HRG has on my A.

Mark
Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

Mark
With due respect. With the possible exception of the near born dead attempt of a twin cam B series engine in the MGA, the BMC A, B and C series engines are not conducive to a cross flow. The position of the valves, the "heart" shape of the upper chamber are more than enough to cancel any anticipated performance gains. There are those who would argue that point, but basically, the motor was designed for same side manifolds. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is some debate about a very early head made for the A series which in fact did allegedly perform better. Subsequent attempts however, have not born out that fact.

Gas flow tech became an art under the tutelage of Harry Weslake. Every major manufacturer, and more so their collective "works" teams, sought Harry for input. That is part of the reason virtually all Triumph and BMC products register his name on some plate on their engines.

There is much more "to it" than creating one part different.

Bottom line, you can't easily make a silk purse from a sow's ear.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

Member Services:
Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.
Big6Mark Avatar
Mark M
Emerald Valley, OR, USA   usa
1960 Austin-Healey 3000
1968 MG MGC "Red Tail"
1968 MG MGC
1968 MG MGC GT "The Wreck"
1969 MG MGC GT "The Lump"

Beg to differ on a couple of points, Robert:

1) The A-series and B-series engines do benefit from using a crossflow head because the original is a lame design with all the ports, especially the siamesed intake ports, on the same side of the head as the cam. That requires the design to make room for the pushrods and all the ports on the same side of the head. That makes the port sizes restricted whereas with the crossflow heads the intake ports are given much more room.

The MGC head (like the Austin-Healey before it) has the cam on the opposite side of the block so that each port, intake and exhaust, can have plenty of room.

The alloy heads are often better because of better casting methods than were used by BMC that make the thickness of all the castings more uniform and appropriate than compared to the old cast iron. Basically any new casting would be better than what BMC did in the old days.

2) The alloy head will make the engine run cooler simply because the alloy doesn't seem to absorb the heat as fast as the cast iron. Keeping the heat in the combustion gasses results in a little more power produced as well.

Even though the alloy heads are no longer available (damn I want one!!!) nearly the same effect can be had by modern coating technology. Ceramic coat the tops of the pistons, head end of the exhaust valves, inside the combustion chambers, inside the exhaust ports and inside and out of the exhaust manifolds/headers and keep the heat where it belongs and produce more power and reduce the carbon fowling as well.

And cheaper than finding an alloy head.

Only problem will be not saving a little 35-40 lbs. off of the MGC front axle. Which just means you have to setup your suspension a little better, like I do.

C Ya,
Mark
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