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Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others

Posted by BrianH

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Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #1
BrianH Brian H Columbus, Ohio, USA 1967 MG MGB 1969 MG MGC 2011 Mazda MX-5	Posted: June 05, 2012 07:47PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 119

What and where are the numbers? Some I know. Some I've heard about. Here are some from my car. These are easy but what do they mean and do they have significance? Picture attached showing two and a half, but you can guess the rest of the half.

1. MGCU 001510 on a silver colored plate

2. Commission No. G52N 001534 N

3. And then of course the VIN GCN1U / 7926G on a black plate from Abingdon.

4. Number on engine between studs above intake manifold 12B2347 27F

The previous owner explained there also is a number on the floor board under the driver's seat. He said it's not readable on the car. What is this number?

Are there other numbers to look for?

Brian

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #2
Big6Mark Mark Miller Springfield, OR, USA 1960 Austin-Healey 3000 1968 MG MGC "Red Tail" 1968 MG MGC 1968 MG MGC GT "The Wreck" 1969 MG MGC GT "The Lump"	Posted: June 05, 2012 11:59PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 1,226

Brian:

1. is the Body Number. This was usually in place when the bodyshell was assembled and painted so is usually painted to match car.

2. Commission Number is something like a batch or Purchase Order number from what I can tell.

3. is the official Car Number: G (means MG) C (2 to 3 litre) N (2 place tourer) 1 (first version) U (North American Market) /7926 (production car numbers started at 101 and went through 9102) G (assembled at MG factory Abingdon). This number was also stamped on the top of the floor under the front of the right seat, directly above the crossmember at the rear of the torsion bars. (The three- or four-digits were also stamped on the frame in another spot, but these are usually very hard to see and if the car has been restored or repainted they are usully covered over.)

4. is the Part Number of the cylinder head. The engine Number should be on a small plate riveted to the top right side of the engine block by the alternator. Should have a Number starting in 29GA/ followed by RU/ (if overdrive, and Rc/ if automatic) then up to four digits.

If the car was made after January 1, 1969, as your car would be, there should also be a Car Number tag visible under the windsield, just to left of center.

There should also be a transmision number somewhere on the gearbox and a number tag on the bottom of the overdrive. There is also a number stamped on the rear axle on the left side tube as I recall, but these numbers may not have been recorded at the factory. All the others would probably be on record if you were to order a Heritage Certificate.

C Ya.
Mark

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #3
trymes Tom Rymes Concord, NH, USA 1959 Riley 1.5 1969 MG MGC GT ~ For Sale ! ~ 1971 Jaguar XJ6 Series 1 1971 MG MGB GT 1972 Chevrolet C20	Posted: June 06, 2012 08:40AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 3,259

The car number is stamped in the metal under the front of the passenger seat (on a LHD car). It is tough to see clearly with the seat and floor covering in the car, but it is possible.

Also, the rear axle ratio is stamped in the axle housing. Two numbers signifying the number of teeth on the gears. The 3.9 axles for MGBs did not have these numbers.

Tom

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #4
pzhdbh Peter Leyland Jeffreys Bay, South Africa	Posted: June 06, 2012 10:52AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 112

In reply to # 2086811 by Big6Mark Brian:

1. is the Body Number. This was usually in place when the bodyshell was assembled and painted so is usually painted to match car.

2. Commission Number is something like a batch or Purchase Order number from what I can tell.

3. is the official Car Number: G (means MG) C (2 to 3 litre) N (2 place tourer) 1 (first version) U (North American Market) /7926 (production car numbers started at 101 and went through 9102) G (assembled at MG factory Abingdon). This number was also stamped on the top of the floor under the front of the right seat, directly above the crossmember at the rear of the torsion bars. (The three- or four-digits were also stamped on the frame in another spot, but these are usually very hard to see and if the car has been restored or repainted they are usully covered over.)

4. is the Part Number of the cylinder head. The engine Number should be on a small plate riveted to the top right side of the engine block by the alternator. Should have a Number starting in 29GA/ followed by RU/ (if overdrive, and Rc/ if automatic) then up to four digits.

If the car was made after January 1, 1969, as your car would be, there should also be a Car Number tag visible under the windsield, just to left of center.

There should also be a transmision number somewhere on the gearbox and a number tag on the bottom of the overdrive. There is also a number stamped on the rear axle on the left side tube as I recall, but these numbers may not have been recorded at the factory. All the others would probably be on record if you were to order a Heritage Certificate.

C Ya.
Mark

Mark,
You are a mine of (very useful) information.

Slightly off topic, but in your view is it worthwhile to get a heritage certificate?

My own car was bought as a project, and appears to have an interesting history.
I have the original matching numbers (body, commission, car and engine numbers)for the car.
I have heard opinions that heritage certificates basically just give you back the data and numbers that you supply them.

Regards

Peter

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #5
kobym Koby Millo Tel-Aviv, Israel 1969 MG MGC	Posted: June 06, 2012 12:47PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 542

In reply to # 2087043 by pzhdbh I have heard opinions that heritage certificates basically just give you back the data and numbers that you supply them.

The only data you need to supply them is the car number (e.g. VIN or chassis number).
They give you in return all the other numbers (engine, gearbox, commission etc.), color, trim, options, built date and more.
As an example, take a look at my car's certificate (in a PDF file). It turned out to be very correct except for the hood type - the certificate says it should have been a packaway, while the car has the grey-frame type ("scissors" ). Might have been replaced by the dealer or a PO.
Does it worth the 40 pounds they charge for it? up to you to decide...

Reg.

Koby

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 12:51PM by kobym.

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #6
Big6Mark Mark Miller Springfield, OR, USA 1960 Austin-Healey 3000 1968 MG MGC "Red Tail" 1968 MG MGC 1968 MG MGC GT "The Wreck" 1969 MG MGC GT "The Lump"	Posted: June 06, 2012 07:40PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 1,226

Agree with Koby.

You can pay extra and have them search simply with an Engine Number if you want, but all they need is the Car Number.

What you get back is all the recorded information at the time of build, so if the car wasn't built to order or already destined for a particular dealer or customer you probably will only get "North America," maybe NYC if you're lucky.

And often the numbers recorded are incorrect or written illegibly. However, sometimes you get a gem of information.

On my MGC roadster I got the original key codes. I didn't get any keys with the car as they were lost by a previous owner. I was able to get two sets of new keys from Triple-C made to the original key codes and they still work. I also learned that I do not have the original engine.

The Heritage Certificate for my Healey not only revealed that it left the factory in the rare Black over Colorado Red paint, but that it left with an even rarer Colorado Red hardtop. So 1950's! Red over black over red.

C Ya,
Mark

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #7
Bob in Vancouver Bob Elwin Vancouver BC, Canada 1968 MG MGC 1969 MG MGC GT	Posted: June 06, 2012 11:51PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 193

Brian, Sometimes you get a nugget of unexpected information - my Heritage Certificate indicated my '68 roadster was originally intended for shipment to France with the 2850cc engine (30 thou undersize) - but the car was instead shipped to Scandinavia before coming to Canada.
Earlier, rebuilding the engine in the early nineties, it was a bit confusing for the machine shop when they had to bore it 60 thou to get the 30 over pistons to fit! The Heritage Certificate sorted out what had happened! It appears the French market had a capacity or bore class with a limit of 2850cc , so BMC saw fit to make a special engine to perhaps snag a few more sales. Otherwise, I would still be wondering why my engine was different. Cheers, Bob.

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #8
BrianH Brian H Columbus, Ohio, USA 1967 MG MGB 1969 MG MGC 2011 Mazda MX-5	Posted: June 07, 2012 08:23AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 119

This has been a great thread. Thank you everyone for the help and interesting stories. I know from the PO that though it's supposed to be mostly original my car was put together somewhat with parts from a second car. I think I'll spring for the cert just to see what else might have been and to have a record of it.

Brian

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #9
Swamperca Swamper CA Nor Cal, USA 1969 MG MGB GT "Rat" 1969 MG MGC GT "A 69 MGC" 1970 MG MGB GT "Widow" 1971 MG MGB "Ruby" 1974 MG MGB "Groovy B"	Posted: June 07, 2012 10:18AM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 7,660

Those are in excellent condition for being original.

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #10
BrianH Brian H Columbus, Ohio, USA 1967 MG MGB 1969 MG MGC 2011 Mazda MX-5	Posted: June 07, 2012 10:27AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 119

Yes. They were replaced with copies/duplicates ordered through Victoria British by the PO because the originals were in such bad shape.

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #11
T.Gallagher Tim Gallagher Bow, New Hampshire, USA 1969 MG MGC	Posted: June 07, 2012 08:07PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 45

Can anyone confirm as to whether or not you will get an engine number as part of the Heritage certificate ?

My plate was removed and lost as part my engine re-build many years ago.

Thanks,
Tim

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #12
C8407 Craig Cummings Williamsburg, Virginia, USA 1969 MG MGC GT	Posted: June 07, 2012 09:22PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 259

Last month I sent in my commission number and VIN and received all of the missing numbers.

Craig

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #13
kobym Koby Millo Tel-Aviv, Israel 1969 MG MGC	Posted: June 07, 2012 10:57PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 542

In reply to # 2088208 by T.Gallagher Can anyone confirm as to whether or not you will get an engine number as part of the Heritage certificate ?

Yes - you'll get an engine number. See the file attached to message no. 5 for an example.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2012 04:51AM by kobym.

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #14
T.Gallagher Tim Gallagher Bow, New Hampshire, USA 1969 MG MGC	Posted: June 08, 2012 04:45AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 45

Excellent !

Thanks Koby & Craig !

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Re: Important/Historic Numbers: VIN, Chassis, Engine and Others #15
BrianH Brian H Columbus, Ohio, USA 1967 MG MGB 1969 MG MGC 2011 Mazda MX-5	Posted: June 09, 2012 02:16PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 119

Mark,

With your description I very easily found the motor number: 29GA/ RU /M 1742.

Below that plate are some other numbers. Must be more parts numbers. They are molded in.
MOWOG RM 12B1543 and then below that maybe AGA 5.

So now my question is if I send for the certificate, sounds like I should jsut send the VIN and see what I get. I believe I read that if I send them all they will just send me the list repeated. Not what I'd want.

I'll need to put it up on the lift to get the others you mention, transmission, overdrive, and rear axle.

Brian

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