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Help needed identifying Master cylinders

Posted by pzhdbh

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Help needed identifying Master cylinders #1
pzhdbh Peter Leyland Jeffreys Bay, South Africa	Posted: April 08, 2012 04:05AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 112

I need some help from the gurus on here, please1

I bought my MGC as a project vehicle from a Dealer. The box of parts that came with the vehicle included parts that are not for a C (not even for an MG!), and some that look suspiciously like B parts (recoginising the fact that many non mechanical components and some body parts are common).

The two Girling Master cylinders supplied look identical and have the numbers B 8606 3 48 AH punched on the lowwer mounting face.

They *look* to me like clutch master cylinders, not brake master cylinders.
The bore diameter is 18.9 mm.

This is a European specification car with single in line brake master cylinder and girling servo / brake booster.

Q1 - What are these master cylinders - brake or clutch, and C or B?

Q2 - New C master cylinders *appear* to cost a lot more than B master cylinders - can they be very different? OK the C is heavier than the B, but I doubt whether the master cylinder can be very different between the B and C.
Can I use a B master cylinder on the C (presumably more pedal effort would be needed if the bore is smaller).

Q3. Surely the B and C clutch master cylinders are pretty much interchangeable? Once again, the C has a bigger clutch, so presumably more pressure is needed and perhaps the C master cylinder has a larger bore.

My gut is telling me that I should scrap both the cylinders that I have and buy new genuine C ones - I have had mixed results in overhauling master cylinders and fitting new seals, and for the price of re-sleeving the bore, I can buy a new one.

There are some components which one can take a level of chance on, fit used / overhauled etc, but in my view, steering and brake components fall well outside that category!

On the other hand, I am a bit of a cheapskate................( I recently bought two very nice rain jackets in Hong Kong for USD $8 each, not because I needed them nor liked them particularly, but because they were the price of a beer in a Kowloon bar!)

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #2
Tim Moore Scotland, United Kingdom 1947 Rover 16 "Reggie" 1968 MG MGC GT	Posted: April 08, 2012 04:40AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 53

The photo you attached shows two clutch master cylinders, you will find the Girling Brake Master Cylinder has a larger reservoir and cap. They are MGC marked Girling. MGB's had Lockheed brake systems, MGC's Girling. Do not try to fit an MGB master cylinder if you have any possibility of getting the correct MGC Brake Master Cylinder. Rebuild kits are available but that's only any good for you IF you have a correct MGC Girling casting.

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #3
ron neal Coastal, South Carolina, USA 1962 MG MGA MkII 1968 MG MGC 1969 MG MGC 1969 MG MGC 1969 MG MGC GT → more	Posted: April 08, 2012 07:37AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 3,331

Peter

Kowloon bar, how about the "Bottoms Up" Is it still there?

Agree with Tim on the clutch master cylinders

I will assume you have a home market car which uses the Girling brake master cylinder but in a single line configuration(USA uses a dual line system). You should have one Girling MK2B servo too.

Using a MGB master cylinder entails using the whole MGB pedal box and pedals. Has been done with success but not recommended by some.

Rebuilding master cylinders with 100% success is not always the case, depends on the condition of your core unit and/or the quality and fit of rebuild kits. Buying new has it merits.

Ron

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #4
tdskip Tom Lynch NYC, USA 1959 MG MGA 1969 MG MGC	Posted: April 08, 2012 08:42AM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 3,695

Peter - there is some very good documentation on going with the MGB set up including pedal box here that you can access via the search function. I came close to going that way but am glad I, with lots of help from the folks here, got the factory US set up working. Not cheap however.

Cheap = MGB set up assuming you don't put a price on your time.

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #5
BAHAMIAN C Dave Burley Roscommon, Up North Michigan, USA 1969 MG MGC	Posted: April 08, 2012 11:56AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 68

Peter-

Nowhere near a Guru, but as I do own a NON-U.S. Spec. MG-C with a single line brake sys., I may be able to contribute a little. I have found NEW Brake M/Cs on eBay.uk A place called mgbhiveltd offers them quite regularly.
I have had them source a rebuild kit for my Origional part no. BHA 4521 Brake M/C, which they say has been superceeded a few times to the part no. they are selling now for single line brake systems in the C. (Home Mkt. and Euro Spec.)
Being here in the States, I did have a bit of a time convincing her (Nancy? I think) that I was dealing with a single line system! But, after eMailing orig. part no.s and pictures of my M/C, she did agree that the M/C they were offering was the same M/C. Albeit with superceeded part numbers. You, being in South Africa, shouln't have such a problem!

Hope this helps-- Dave

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #6
mgcgt2912 Richard Bailey Cully, East Devon England, United Kingdom 1969 MG MGC GT	Posted: April 08, 2012 12:20PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 703

Peter,
Repairing obviously depends on state of the bore. But more than likely been repaired at least once before. (40-odd years!)
I repaired one a few years ago and it let me down a year or so later. New ones are not that expensive, at least in UK. And readily available. MgBHive, MG Owners Club, and other Ebay sites. All my opinion for what its worth.
R

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #7
pzhdbh Peter Leyland Jeffreys Bay, South Africa	Posted: April 08, 2012 12:30PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 112

In reply to # 2034359 by ron neal Peter

Kowloon bar, how about the "Bottoms Up" Is it still there?

Agree with Tim on the clutch master cylinders

I will assume you have a home market car which uses the Girling brake master cylinder but in a single line configuration(USA uses a dual line system). You should have one Girling MK2B servo too.

Using a MGB master cylinder entails using the whole MGB pedal box and pedals. Has been done with success but not recommended by some.

Rebuilding master cylinders with 100% success is not always the case, depends on the condition of your core unit and/or the quality and fit of rebuild kits. Buying new has it merits.

Ron

Hey Ron, you naughty boy, you.

Funnily enough, the "bottoms up" bar is known to me from former visits to HK years ago (an African American lady with an amazing pair of eyes used to work there!)

I spent two hours looking for the "bottoms up" only to learn that it was closed down in 1994 by the HK government!

A week earlier, two of my colleagues dragged me to a dive called Bazooties (spelling?) in Detroit Michigan.
Now THAT is quite a place (as a friend of mine would say, 2 fights and five F%^*s the moment you go through the door.)

On second thoughts, perhaps that was five fights?

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #8
ron neal Coastal, South Carolina, USA 1962 MG MGA MkII 1968 MG MGC 1969 MG MGC 1969 MG MGC 1969 MG MGC GT → more	Posted: April 08, 2012 06:44PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 3,331

Peter

Its been quite a few years since I was in Hong Kong but always liked drinking in Kowloon.
Sorry the Bottoms Up went t... up.
I have been to a few places I wish I had not entered, just glad I made it out alive.
I was young and stupid back then, now I am just old and hopefully a little less stupid.

Good luck with the MGC repairs and keep us posted.

Ron

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #9
pzhdbh Peter Leyland Jeffreys Bay, South Africa	Posted: April 09, 2012 12:56AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 112

Dave, Richard,
Thanks - yes, I have seen those cylinders offered on E-Bay.

How did you persuade MGB Hive to send the parts to USA?
I phoned and e-mailed them for a whole bunch of parts, and they told me "sorry, we do not ship oputside the UK".

Asking nicely did not help, nor did sarcasm ("put your hands in the air, this is a stick-up. I am a customer that wants to buy some parts from you" winking smiley

.

Thanks to all for the help and advice - this helps me a lot.

Decision taken - I am buying new parts!

In reply to # 2034581 by mgcgt2912 Peter,
Repairing obviously depends on state of the bore. But more than likely been repaired at least once before. (40-odd years!)
I repaired one a few years ago and it let me down a year or so later. New ones are not that expensive, at least in UK. And readily available. MgBHive, MG Owners Club, and other Ebay sites. All my opinion for what its worth.
R

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #10
kirks-auto robert kirk Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA	Posted: April 09, 2012 08:10AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 13,176

Girling is what was used on bigger and better cars...UK Ger. and Italy.
No knock on Lockheed but Girling is the best candidate imho.

If asked, I have all that the "hive" has to offer as well. The single line system takes a small rebuild kit. I don't stock as EU and UK cars are a bit rare in NA.

Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

How to advertise on this website

Kirk's Auto Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #11
BAHAMIAN C Dave Burley Roscommon, Up North Michigan, USA 1969 MG MGC	Posted: April 10, 2012 07:33PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 68

Peter-
In my dealings with the B Hive in the UK, any reluctance to ship overseas never came up. Maybe this is a recent policy change? Sorry to hear of this as I have always gotten real good service from them for my NON-U.S. Spec. parts.
Maybe Mr. Kirk would have better luck in dealing with them! He DOES have the connections!
Hope it works out-- Dave

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #12
Big6Mark Mark Miller Springfield, OR, USA 1960 Austin-Healey 3000 1968 MG MGC "Red Tail" 1968 MG MGC 1968 MG MGC GT "The Wreck" 1969 MG MGC GT "The Lump"	Posted: April 10, 2012 07:57PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 1,226

Those Master cylinders are essentially "generic".

Used in a lot of cars, both production and racing. Vary by bore size to fit mechanical application: 5/8", 0.70", 3/4", etc. Copies available from Japanese makers or Tilton in the US.

C Ya,
Mark

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #13
kirks-auto robert kirk Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA	Posted: April 11, 2012 07:47AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 13,176

Not particular in defense of the Hive, but 9/11 has had far reaching effects on International shipping. What used to be simple is no longer. MGC spin on conversion kit at about a pound in weight, took 5 weeks to go arrive across the our Northern border. Two different occasions have found very small packets go missing to Denmark. As much as I try to stay ahead of it all, some things just don't make sense. After the frustration of "missing" shipments which may or may not have been insured or insurable, I suspect some vendors prefer simply not to go through the hassle and possible loss to themselves or their clients.

Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

How to advertise on this website

Kirk's Auto Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #14
romeo69 stephen curtis berkshire, United Kingdom	Posted: April 11, 2012 01:17PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 400

generic master cylinders .some are not exact as they have different size union fitted so be carefull .i have seen a few mgcs with adaptors fitted to size down .what a wally.. to save a tenner and cost a tenner for the union . get the right one its cheaper to do the job correct than bodge it imho

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #15
kirks-auto robert kirk Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA	Posted: April 11, 2012 01:33PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 13,176

Steve
While we may have not agreed on everything in the past that is very sound and good advice. IMHO

Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

How to advertise on this website

Kirk's Auto Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.

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Re: Help needed identifying Master cylinders #16
Swamperca Swamper CA Nor Cal, USA 1969 MG MGB GT "Rat" 1969 MG MGC GT "A 69 MGC" 1970 MG MGB GT "Widow" 1971 MG MGB "Ruby" 1974 MG MGB "Groovy B"	Posted: April 11, 2012 03:54PM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 7,660

Stay with the stock components.

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