Do you think Lance doped? (Page 5) : Off Topic Forum : MG Experience Forums : The MG Experience

Re: Do you think Lance doped? #81
racer76 Eric E. Adelaide, South Australia, Australia 1968 MG MGB "Blue"	Posted: July 02, 2012 02:24AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 7,087

In reply to # 2108837 by melbaver Especially when they get floral bouquets for the achievement.

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #82
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: July 02, 2012 05:24AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 922

In reply to # 2108438 by auctionwatch He's smeared a member of the review panel as a "sex offender" because he is alleged to have exposed himself.

The review board member in question is, in fact, the attorney who helped the board craft and file the charges against Armstrong and was, in fact, accused of exposing himself to a 24-year old student. The case has been settled without an admission of guilt on the part of the attorney. I'm not sure what the legal term is for the decision but it was reached in lieu of a conviction, as there was more than ample evidence to convict if it went to trial.

In view of the facts, Armstrong calling the guy out seems less like a smear to me and more like simple fact. Unless, of course, you feel that publically exposing yourself is an acceptable way of public expression.

Maybe a little less venom and a little more objectivity?

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #83
auctionwatch Steve . Out There, Somewhere, Japan	Posted: July 02, 2012 07:29AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 6,897

In reply to # 2108870 by dtownsend

In reply to # 2108438 by auctionwatch He's smeared a member of the review panel as a "sex offender" because he is alleged to have exposed himself.

The review board member in question is, in fact, the attorney who helped the board craft and file the charges against Armstrong and was, in fact, accused of exposing himself to a 24-year old student. The case has been settled without an admission of guilt on the part of the attorney. I'm not sure what the legal term is for the decision but it was reached in lieu of a conviction, as there was more than ample evidence to convict if it went to trial.

In view of the facts, Armstrong calling the guy out seems less like a smear to me and more like simple fact. Unless, of course, you feel that publically exposing yourself is an acceptable way of public expression.

Maybe a little less venom and a little more objectivity?

Please explain how on earth revealing the "simple fact" is relevant to the case? Objectively, please.
I'll help you out: it's not in any way relevant. It's just a smear from Pharmstrong.

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal." - Jesus

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2012 07:30AM by auctionwatch.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #84
taskadog Phil Burke Tequesta/Orlando Florida, USA 1972 MG Midget	Posted: July 02, 2012 07:53AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 1,364

In reply to # 2108870 by dtownsend

In reply to # 2108438 by auctionwatch He's smeared a member of the review panel as a "sex offender" because he is alleged to have exposed himself.

The review board member in question is, in fact, the attorney who helped the board craft and file the charges against Armstrong and was, in fact, accused of exposing himself to a 24-year old student. The case has been settled without an admission of guilt on the part of the attorney. I'm not sure what the legal term is for the decision but it was reached in lieu of a conviction, as there was more than ample evidence to convict if it went to trial.

In view of the facts, Armstrong calling the guy out seems less like a smear to me and more like simple fact. Unless, of course, you feel that publically exposing yourself is an acceptable way of public expression.

Maybe a little less venom and a little more objectivity?

A case of shoot the messenger, perhaps

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #85
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: July 02, 2012 08:08AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 922

In reply to # 2108921 by taskadog
A case of shoot the messenger, perhaps

Perhaps. At its core, this whole episode seems to get down to character (or lack thereof). In that light, Lance calling out the attorney on his lack of character (and that would be putting it mildly), seems like a bit of ti-for-tat. If then, we're measuring who the "best of the worst" is, the Lance gets the nod in my book. While Lance may (or may not have) showed an utter lack of character in doing whatever he need to do to win, it has yet to proven (even though that really seems to get under some people's skin). The attorney's actions are a matter of public record.

Regarding the whole doping thing in general I, for one, am mercifully glad that things I have done in my youth can't be put under the microscope of modern evidential methods. By that standard I, and I would guess a fair slice of the population, would be writing this from some prison.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #86
wyatt Wyatt W penguin point, drift ice, Antarctica 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1960 MG MGA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: July 02, 2012 08:27AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 23,301

..Haaa Haaa...good post....

...it seems ole Mr Lance is the proverbial Ham Sandwich.....not that I really care mind you...

"Regarding the whole doping thing in general I, for one, am mercifully glad that things I have done in my youth can't be put under the microscope of modern evidential methods. By that standard I, and I would guess a fair slice of the population, would be writing this from some prison."

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #87
racer76 Eric E. Adelaide, South Australia, Australia 1968 MG MGB "Blue"	Posted: July 02, 2012 08:44AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 7,087

In reply to # 2108932 by dtownsend
Regarding the whole doping thing in general I, for one, am mercifully glad that things I have done in my youth can't be put under the microscope of modern evidential methods. By that standard I, and I would guess a fair slice of the population, would be writing this from some prison.

Then you won't want to go into politics.

Did you inhale?

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #88
auctionwatch Steve . Out There, Somewhere, Japan	Posted: July 02, 2012 08:48AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 6,897

Completely agree that Lance is the "best of the worst", and should be celebrated for his phenomenal determination, athletic prowess and successes against other drug cheats.

But personally, I can't abide cheats, liars and frauds, and the thought that we should "let them get away with it" without making an effort to strip them of their ill-gotten gains is something completely alien to me.

The USADA has not one or two, but more than ten witnesses lined up willing to go under oath to testify that Armstrong not only took performance enhancing drugs, but also supplied them to others. You could understand that one or two (e.g. Landis, Lemonde) might have ulterior motives for wanting to see Lance go down, but ten eyewitnesses? That's a serious state of affairs that won't just be swept away by smearing the panel.

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal." - Jesus

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #89
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: July 02, 2012 08:48AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 922

In reply to # 2108947 by racer76

In reply to # 2108932 by dtownsend
Regarding the whole doping thing in general I, for one, am mercifully glad that things I have done in my youth can't be put under the microscope of modern evidential methods. By that standard I, and I would guess a fair slice of the population, would be writing this from some prison.

Then you won't want to go into politics.

Did you inhale?

If we're talking the same way Bill Clinton never had sex with Monica and Jimmy Carter only "lusted in his heart" then, no, I never inhaled.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #90
mowog205 Geoffrey Morgan Pelham AL, USA 1972 MG MGB	Posted: July 02, 2012 08:48AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 4

It is more difficult to believe that he did not than to imagine that he did. I think that Steve is correct. The 1984 USA Olympic Bicycling Team was so "dirty" that it is a wonder they did not have a fatality. This was right under the nose of the Olympic Committee. The problem I have with today's investigation of Lance Armstrong is that it is the vendetta of one super ambitious investigator with (presently) the FDA, Jeff Novitzky. Novitzky couldn't ascend fast enough in the FBI or the IRS so he found sports doping as his ticket to fame and joined the FDA (!?). This guy thinks he is Elliot Ness and J. Edgar Hoover in one and he is out to become a household name and supercharge his career. Novitzky has also now had help from Greg LeMond; LeMond is being a very poor sport and was probably not "clean" in his day either; it might be wise for him to keep his mouth shut. Floyd Landis, the main accuser, just wants company in the pity lane. Lance passed the tests then so let it go. It's time to move on.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #91
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: July 02, 2012 10:18AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,339

Steve,

There's a bit of circular logic here:

Armstrong has been accused by an anonymous three member review board (why does that sound so much like the Spanish Inquisition?)

Your news source states that: Armstrong and his team also fired off claims that one of the USADA review board members has a questionable background that includes an allegation of sexual misconduct with a law school student.

It’s not a claim… here’s a link to the story on the anonymous board member

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/03/elderly-sports-law-professor-accused-of-unsportsmanlike-penile-conduct/

What I find interesting is that in the link the board member is quoted saying: “[a]nybody can charge anybody with anything, and I’ve done nothing wrong.”

So… you think it’s wrong for Armstrong to be just a little PO’ed that someone who also claims innocence would sit in judgment of him… and want to retain his anonymity?

Beside… to me it seems obvious this is a political fight. A different set of rules apply.

Eric... don't trifle with men in tights!

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #92
MrMarty51 Martin Draper Miles City,Montana, USA 1978 MG MGB "" Little Red Crapper Car""	Posted: July 02, 2012 11:06AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,417

I pulled a tendon in My leg and had to go in and see the broken bones Dr;whatever they call them,I was setting on the table,shirt off,pants off,just in My unnershorts.
The doc walks in,takes a glance and exclaims"How long have You been using steroids"What the Heck,I replied "I have never used any steroids of any kind,"Oh,I seen Your build and I thought You mihgt have been using steroids to build Your muscles."I replied back"The only steroids I have ever used to build My muscles was and is "Hard Work".
So,with that said,I still hold that lance used NO drugs to get to the top,well except for the drug called "Hard Work" to get there.
I thinking the European counterparts is 'Jealous" because He took away their trophy and their "Pride" and showed them that an "American" can do it even better.
Thats all.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #93
auctionwatch Steve . Out There, Somewhere, Japan	Posted: July 02, 2012 12:46PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 6,897

In reply to # 2109067 by MrMarty51 So,with that said,I still hold that lance used NO drugs to get to the top,well except for the drug called "Hard Work" to get there.
I thinking the European counterparts is 'Jealous" because He took away their trophy and their "Pride" and showed them that an "American" can do it even better.
Thats all.

As Kurt has said, this might be true for the French media hounding him, but it's not the reason for last year's and this year's investigation, which were entirely US-initiated.

Note also that many of the cyclists accusing Pharmstrong of doping are also fellow Americans, so it further blows your "theory" out of the water.

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal." - Jesus

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #94
melbaver Chris Howells Broadwater NSW, Australia 1968 MG MGB "Moneypit" 1996 Jeep Cherokee "Shopping Trolley"	Posted: July 02, 2012 04:33PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 4,956

In reply to # 2108951 by dtownsend

In reply to # 2108947 by racer76

In reply to # 2108932 by dtownsend
Regarding the whole doping thing in general I, for one, am mercifully glad that things I have done in my youth can't be put under the microscope of modern evidential methods. By that standard I, and I would guess a fair slice of the population, would be writing this from some prison.

Then you won't want to go into politics.

Did you inhale?

If we're talking the same way Bill Clinton never had sex with Monica and Jimmy Carter only "lusted in his heart" then, no, I never inhaled.

So you were only spitting on the butt ends of cigars

Chris Howells

1968 MGB Purchased already dis-assembled which is why I'm often ignorant about what some parts are, and even more ignorant of where they go.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #95
wyatt Wyatt W penguin point, drift ice, Antarctica 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1960 MG MGA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: July 02, 2012 04:41PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 23,301

...I've changed my opinion after not so careful consideration,....make that three French hens and an Armstrong into pharma-cology.......

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #96
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: July 02, 2012 05:26PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 922

In reply to # 2109384 by melbaver

In reply to # 2108951 by dtownsend

In reply to # 2108947 by racer76

In reply to # 2108932 by dtownsend
Regarding the whole doping thing in general I, for one, am mercifully glad that things I have done in my youth can't be put under the microscope of modern evidential methods. By that standard I, and I would guess a fair slice of the population, would be writing this from some prison.

Then you won't want to go into politics.

Did you inhale?

If we're talking the same way Bill Clinton never had sex with Monica and Jimmy Carter only "lusted in his heart" then, no, I never inhaled.

So you were only spitting on the butt ends of cigars

Exactly!

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #97
NOHOME Peter Plouf London, Canada 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite Bugeye "Lil" 1967 MG MGB GT "Maggie (GT From Hell)"	Posted: July 02, 2012 08:34PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 11,885

In reply to # 2108950 by auctionwatch C

But personally, I can't abide cheats, liars and frauds, and the thought that we should "let them get away with it" without making an effort to strip them of their ill-gotten gains is something completely alien to me.

Dude...That funny. You live in the USA. You VOTE for these kinds of people!Then you give them a piss-pot full of your money so they can spread it around to their friends!

And you are upset with a grown man who rides a toy for a living?

Priorities people, priorities!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2012 08:35PM by NOHOME.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #98
auctionwatch Steve . Out There, Somewhere, Japan	Posted: July 03, 2012 02:02AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 6,897

In reply to # 2109569 by NOHOME

In reply to # 2108950 by auctionwatch C

But personally, I can't abide cheats, liars and frauds, and the thought that we should "let them get away with it" without making an effort to strip them of their ill-gotten gains is something completely alien to me.

Dude...That funny. You live in the USA. You VOTE for these kinds of people!Then you give them a piss-pot full of your money so they can spread it around to their friends!

And you are upset with a grown man who rides a toy for a living?

Priorities people, priorities!

I mostly live in the UK. Naturally I also equally support prosecuting politicians and bankers who cheat, lie and defraud and profit from it - there is a huge scandal about the latter in the UK at the moment, but due to the forum rules we can't really talk about that kind of stuff here - so we are left to talk about one of the biggest attempted frauds in sporting history instead. And we shouldn't care about it because it's just a game? I'll remember to bring that up next time hockey is mentioned, and see how that sentiment goes down winking smiley

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal." - Jesus

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #99
racer76 Eric E. Adelaide, South Australia, Australia 1968 MG MGB "Blue"	Posted: July 03, 2012 03:47AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 7,087

Quintal suggested 40 percent of NHLers have used stimulants to get whipped up for games (mostly over-the-counter products like Sudafed), while Nazarov claimed 99 percent of enforcers use steroids. The latter claim, in particular, saw Nazarov’s credibility being attacked, with talk of sour grapes.

See, an opponent can't make the claim - it has to be an outside, independent body.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #100
Kurt Breitsprecher Thunder Bay, ON, Canada	Posted: July 03, 2012 08:16AM Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 918

In reply to # 2109031 by Steve64B Steve,

There's a bit of circular logic here:

Armstrong has been accused by an anonymous three member review board (why does that sound so much like the Spanish Inquisition?)

Your news source states that: Armstrong and his team also fired off claims that one of the USADA review board members has a questionable background that includes an allegation of sexual misconduct with a law school student.

It’s not a claim… here’s a link to the story on the anonymous board member

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/03/elderly-sports-law-professor-accused-of-unsportsmanlike-penile-conduct/

What I find interesting is that in the link the board member is quoted saying: “[a]nybody can charge anybody with anything, and I’ve done nothing wrong.”

So… you think it’s wrong for Armstrong to be just a little PO’ed that someone who also claims innocence would sit in judgment of him… and want to retain his anonymity?

Beside… to me it seems obvious this is a political fight. A different set of rules apply.

Eric... don't trifle with men in tights!

There isn`t any circular logic there. The usada kept the review board anonymous until the trial to prevent the kind of attacks that Armstrong is doing right now. They wanted to prevent intimidation and even still were unable to.

I think since took the drugs, and a judge would never have been able to rule against lance because of the legal technicalities that lance would get off on. The usada doesn't have the same burden of proof, but they still need more than conjecture, which they do have. They are just waiting until the trial to release the evidence because they are scared of the intimidation that lances team would inflict.

I don't disagree that this a political play by the usada, but that still doesn't negate the fact lance did it but they will never be able to prove it.

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