Do you think Lance doped? : Off Topic Forum : MG Experience Forums : The MG Experience

Re: Do you think Lance doped? #181
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: July 18, 2012 10:10AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,348

In reply to # 2123309 by Kurt Breitsprecher It should be noted that his sample was found to have Xipamide in it.. which is a diuretic.

So one of three things happened...

1) Since diuretics are considered masking agents making other drugs sweep out of your system he possibly was on something else but not in high enough concentrations to be caught thanks to this diuretic...

or 2) he was taking it because he was going into the mountains and he wanted to lose weight faster than normal(he already looks like a malnourished Ethiopian so I don't know why he would want to lose more weight)

or 3) and this is probably the least likely, that someone put it in his food... while not out of the question, with the way the teams food is prepared it is very difficult to target a specific athlete. if the whole team was positive this seems alot more likely...

All the riders look like malnourished Ethiopian's!

Part of it just doesn't make sense. With the Armstrong thing hanging fire you'd have to know that the organizers and all their anti-doping people are on Red-Alert!

Doping in this Tour would be like thinking you could rob a doughnut shop… you know there’s going to be a cop in there and you’ll get caught. Why would you think you could get away with it?

Rick... go drive your porche.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #182
Kurt Breitsprecher Thunder Bay, ON, Canada	Posted: July 18, 2012 10:30AM Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 918

In reply to # 2123378 by Steve64B

In reply to # 2123309 by Kurt Breitsprecher It should be noted that his sample was found to have Xipamide in it.. which is a diuretic.

So one of three things happened...

1) Since diuretics are considered masking agents making other drugs sweep out of your system he possibly was on something else but not in high enough concentrations to be caught thanks to this diuretic...

or 2) he was taking it because he was going into the mountains and he wanted to lose weight faster than normal(he already looks like a malnourished Ethiopian so I don't know why he would want to lose more weight)

or 3) and this is probably the least likely, that someone put it in his food... while not out of the question, with the way the teams food is prepared it is very difficult to target a specific athlete. if the whole team was positive this seems alot more likely...

All the riders look like malnourished Ethiopian's!

Part of it just doesn't make sense. With the Armstrong thing hanging fire you'd have to know that the organizers and all their anti-doping people are on Red-Alert!

Doping in this Tour would be like thinking you could rob a doughnut shop… you know there’s going to be a cop in there and you’ll get caught. Why would you think you could get away with it?

Rick... go drive your porche.

Well this is the second person being charged with it. Franks punishment doesn't have to include a suspension... Basically they said your using something we have found that masks drug use, but we have no proof you took drugs... The team decided to pull him from the tour and made a statement that said that Xipamide isn't found in any of the supplements they use, so they don't know where Frank took it, or how he got it.

Also people try to gain an advantage because they don't think they will get caught... they think they can beat the system, which is what all dopers do until they get caught... Think about Landis.. 4-5 years he took drugs and never tested positive... same with Hamilton... They have a system that keeps them under the radar... same could have happened with frank.. maybe he got careless... or maybe it is nothing and someone spiked something he ate...

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #183
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: July 18, 2012 10:56AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,348

From what I understand about pro bike racing... during a big event like the Tour these guys are treated like show dog. They are fed, massaged, medically treated and put to bed. I can’t imagine anyone getting close enough to be able to “spike” someone’s food?

Isn’t that why in the Armstrong case they’re going after everyone in an ancillary role from trainer to team manager?

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #184
Kurt Breitsprecher Thunder Bay, ON, Canada	Posted: July 18, 2012 11:02AM Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 918

In reply to # 2123425 by Steve64B From what I understand about pro bike racing... during a big event like the Tour these guys are treated like show dog. They are fed, massaged, medically treated and put to bed. I can’t imagine anyone getting close enough to be able to “spike” someone’s food?

Isn’t that why in the Armstrong case they’re going after everyone in an ancillary role from trainer to team manager?

Exactly what I said earlier... The drug found being a diuretic could have been taken for another non performance enhancing reason, which is why there may not be a suspension, but the fact the drug was found in his system seems odd to me... why would you risk it, unless you had something you were hiding...

I think the reason they are going after armstrong and his team is because there is speculation and some evidence that supports the theory that the team and armstrong were instrumental in providing and concealing doping within the team...

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #185
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: July 18, 2012 11:51AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,348

In reply to # 2123429 by Kurt Breitsprecher

In reply to # 2123425 by Steve64B From what I understand about pro bike racing... during a big event like the Tour these guys are treated like show dog. They are fed, massaged, medically treated and put to bed. I can’t imagine anyone getting close enough to be able to “spike” someone’s food?

Isn’t that why in the Armstrong case they’re going after everyone in an ancillary role from trainer to team manager?

Exactly what I said earlier... The drug found being a diuretic could have been taken for another non performance enhancing reason, which is why there may not be a suspension, but the fact the drug was found in his system seems odd to me... why would you risk it, unless you had something you were hiding...

I think the reason they are going after armstrong and his team is because there is speculation and some evidence that supports the theory that the team and armstrong were instrumental in providing and concealing doping within the team...

That's why it sounded so familiar!

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #186
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: July 21, 2012 11:06AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,348

FYI:

Looks like the Judge who spanked the Armstrong legal team, took their revised request for a restraining order under advisement, and the USADA moved the date for Armstrong to decide.

Once again… looking for something else, I found this:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/USADA_s_Motion_to_Dismiss_Dissected_2938.html

It’s an analysis of the USADA’s motion to dismiss, interesting reading.

I also found this, the USADA is 36-1 in contested arbitration cases. Read about the one case they lost here:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/other-sports/why-lance-armstrong-should-refuse-play-usadas-game

Latasha Jenkins won her case against the USADA, but lost her Olympic dream. At the end of her case, the agencies involved implied that they had evidence in their possession which would completely disprove the claims against her. She never got to see it!

The more I read, the sleazier the USADA looks.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #187
auctionwatch Steve . Out There, Somewhere, Japan	Posted: August 24, 2012 01:56AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 6,930

Well, there we have it. Pharmstrong will not contest the charges any longer. There will be no arbitration, no embarrassing (and damaging to his public persona) line-up of friend after friend going on the stand and declaring that yes, Lance Armstrong took drugs. Pharmstrong is betting on enough public doubt to remain so that he can continue his business interests outside of cycling.

It's a confession without a confession. The real tragedy of this is that Armstrong cannot admit the truth: that he is a cheat.... even if he is truly is the best of all the other cheaters. So much for personal responsibility.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/aug/24/how-lance-armstrong-strongarmed-cycling

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal." - Jesus

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 02:06AM by auctionwatch.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #188
don4975 Don don4975 Rockville, Rockville, MD, USA 1970 MG MGB "Biscuit" 1970 MG MGB	Posted: August 24, 2012 06:20AM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 4,482

Lance did not dope, he just got sick of the dopes (see above) saying he did. Lance won the races fair and square and can be proud of it.

No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselve in a hole we help them out.

tick tock

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #189
Kurt Breitsprecher Thunder Bay, ON, Canada	Posted: August 24, 2012 09:59AM Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 918

In reply to # 2152832 by don4975 Lance did not dope, he just got sick of the dopes (see above) saying he did. Lance won the races fair and square and can be proud of it.

No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselve in a hole we help them out.

tick tock

Don, he won all the races fair and square, mainly because everyone else in them was taking drugs like Lance was. I still think he is a great cyclist, one of the top 10 all time, but he did take the drugs. Why he is hoping for is that the UCI and WADA, will reject the ruling of the USADA, because as Lance has pointed out he doesn't think the USADA has jurisdiction over him since he mainly races in Europe, and neither of these bodies support the USADA process.

So I don't think this is over. I think that he will go to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Which will ultimately rule on this decision.

I do find it odd however that Lance decided to opt out of the arbitration process that the USADA had.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #190
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: August 24, 2012 01:54PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,348

Knock me over with a feather, but I'm not surprise.

Exactly ONE athlete has challenged the USADA arbitration and won. Kangaroo court at its finest.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #191
auctionwatch Steve . Out There, Somewhere, Japan	Posted: August 24, 2012 05:55PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 6,930

In reply to # 2152832 by don4975 Lance did not dope, he just got sick of the dopes (see above) saying he did. Lance won the races fair and square and can be proud of it.

No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselve in a hole we help them out.

tick tock

Nationalism is a bit like the old chap... everyone thinks theirs is the best, it makes you say and do things which entirely bypass what little brain you have (as amply evidenced by your post) but when you wave it around in public, it just makes you look like an utter fool.

Your attempt to turn this into a Europe vs. USA "thang" is utterly pathetic, even for your already rock-bottom standards. The people willing to testify that Pharmstrong doped to the USADA, an AMERICAN organisation, were AMERICAN teammates of Pharmstrong, including his close friend and all round good-egg George Hincapie.

Just in case you didn't understand, here it is again: this is an AMERICAN prosection brought by AMERICANS calling AMERICAN witnesses.

AMERICA, baby!

So what in Christ's name does Europe have to do with anything, "Don"?

Whilst you're there not answering that question, ignore this one too: what on Earth does America have that a "European" (whatever that is... do you mean a Latvian? A Spaniard? A Norwegian? A Brit?) would be jealous of? (It's not your universal healthcare, that's for sure...)

One other missive for you to complete gloss over in your usual style: since they're "always" doing it, please give me several examples of the USA "digging out Europeans when they get in a hole". You can't be referring to the First World War, as the US public were isolationist and couldn't give a crap about the war in Europe; only your Administration wanted to help, and only managed to do so once American interests were threatened. You also can't be referring to the Second World War, as once again the USA stayed well away until they were attacked and declared war on by Japan and Germany.

So what else on your list do you have to not add?

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal." - Jesus

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 05:58PM by auctionwatch.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #192
melbaver Chris Howells Broadwater NSW, Australia 1968 MG MGB "Moneypit" 1996 Jeep Cherokee "Shopping Trolley"	Posted: August 24, 2012 06:31PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 4,986

So he can only be stripped of his titles by the Tour de France Organisers/Official Body.

Chris Howells

1968 MGB Purchased already dis-assembled which is why I'm often ignorant about what some parts are, and even more ignorant of where they go.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #193
wyatt Wyatt W penguin point, drift ice, Antarctica 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1960 MG MGA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: August 24, 2012 06:33PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 23,301

In reply to # 2153281 by melbaver So he can only be stripped of his titles by the Tour de France Organisers/Official Body.

...yup.....and never eat in a Michelin 4 star restaurant again............

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #194
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: August 25, 2012 06:38AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,348

In reply to # 2152832 by don4975 Lance did not dope, he just got sick of the dopes (see above) saying he did. Lance won the races fair and square and can be proud of it.

No one can take it away from him or the USA.

Europeans are jealous of Americans. Every time they dig themselve in a hole we help them out.

tick tock

Once again you've earned the title SFB... the people persecuting poor Lance is the USADA!

Give you one guess to what US stands for

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #195
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: August 25, 2012 07:08AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,348

In reply to # 2152801 by auctionwatch Well, there we have it. Pharmstrong will not contest the charges any longer. There will be no arbitration, no embarrassing (and damaging to his public persona) line-up of friend after friend going on the stand and declaring that yes, Lance Armstrong took drugs. Pharmstrong is betting on enough public doubt to remain so that he can continue his business interests outside of cycling.

It's a confession without a confession. The real tragedy of this is that Armstrong cannot admit the truth: that he is a cheat.... even if he is truly is the best of all the other cheaters. So much for personal responsibility.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/aug/24/how-lance-armstrong-strongarmed-cycling

BTW: there never would have been a succession of friend after friend taking the stand... all of their "statements" would have been admitted without cross examination. The scientists who say his lab samples indicated doping... same thing no cross. Of 31 people who have taken their case to arbitration the USADA is 31 and 1! So much for fair play!

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #196
GERONIMO Jim Barker Northeast, IL, USA 1970 MG MGB GT "The Bearcar"	Posted: August 25, 2012 12:57PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 3,733

The entire ordeal reminds me of "Shoeless" Joe Jackson. Anyone remember him? They were never able to supply any positive evidence of guilt and yet he was supposedly a player involved in throwing a world series. Of course then again, if he can get an attorney like Johnny Cochoran to represent him, he would be found not guilty. isn't that right O.J.?

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #197
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: August 25, 2012 01:09PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,348

In reply to # 2153723 by GERONIMO The entire ordeal reminds me of "Shoeless" Joe Jackson. Anyone remember him? They were never able to supply any positive evidence of guilt and yet he was supposedly a player involved in throwing a world series. Of course then again, if he can get an attorney like Johnny Cochoran to represent him, he would be found not guilty. isn't that right O.J.?

At least OJ had a trial where his attornies were able to confront the evidence the State presented against him. Lance wasn't given that courtesy.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #198
crustyoldfe Bob . At, Large, Canada 1977 MG MGB 2006 Jeep Commander 2011 Ford Mustang	Posted: August 25, 2012 02:38PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 2,295

In reply to # 2093864 by wyatt ..pcadogan.....I'm all for big gulps extra butter pop corn milk shakes smokes booze fast cars rock n roll unsalted ugly women for LaVerne and what ever else makes one happy...just keep it to oneself and don't let it interfere with the neighbors good times....it's not my business to dictate how the other men should live their lives.

...this will probably start a pissin match...by those who want to live my life and tell me about black and white and parse snips....pffffhttt... smoking smiley

AHA! You finally sprung an air leak. I knew it would happen sooner or late.

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #199
wyatt Wyatt W penguin point, drift ice, Antarctica 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1960 MG MGA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: August 26, 2012 06:33AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 23,301

...awright,you gotta point........extry buttered salty women would be my choice too,but LaVerne has a tendency ta puff up if he consumes such nectar....but the snippin the parse stays...

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Re: Do you think Lance doped? #200
auctionwatch Steve . Out There, Somewhere, Japan	Posted: October 10, 2012 12:46PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 6,930

They cut off Lance's remaining ball later today, with the publication of the review against him.

In his statement, Tygart said the evidence against Armstrong and his team - which is in excess of 1,000 pages - was "overwhelming" and "and includes sworn testimony from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the US Postal Service Team and its participants' doping activities".

Tygart revealed it contains "direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding".

LieStrong

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal." - Jesus

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