Poll

Do you think Lance Armstrong used performance enhancing drugs to win 7 Tours De France?

Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll.
90 votes were received.

Yes	60		67%
No	30		33%

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Lance Amstrong has been charged with using PED's. What do you think? Did he do it?

Being a big Lance fan, and an avid biker, I would say there is no doubt in my mind that he doped. I just think that he had enough money to hide it better than the people who got caught. If you look at everyone from the first years when lance won 7 tours, almost everyone in the top 10 has either been caught doping, or been tied to it. The only person so far who hasn't really is Lance...

That being said for the sport of cycling and triathlon now, there is no bigger name than Lance Armstrong... the UCI didn't really persue the allegations because of what he brought to the sport, and the Governing body of Triathlons would be smart to look the other way as well... These sports needed him and they got huge revenues because he entered and did well...

......whats the big deal....our food today is a "performance enhancing drug"...look at the size of people today as compared to 100 years ago....it didn't happen by mere evolution...if it's out there let it happen...

I see your point Wyatt....you advocate for performance enhancing evolution? Or are you on the side fighting for the right to use whatever it takes to get to the top & to hell with natural selection?

..pcadogan.....I'm all for big gulps extra butter pop corn milk shakes smokes booze fast cars rock n roll unsalted ugly women for LaVerne and what ever else makes one happy...just keep it to oneself and don't let it interfere with the neighbors good times....it's not my business to dictate how the other men should live their lives.

...this will probably start a pissin match...by those who want to live my life and tell me about black and white and parse snips....pffffhttt...

Wyatt, there is no black and white, it's all shades of gray!

Just thought I'd get the ball rolling for ya.

SD it's a whiter shade of pale...

500 drug tests and not failing a single one?

not guilty.

i don't want to see another trial where all the evidence is someone says they saw him doping or for god's sake he "admitted" to someone else he doped. too many agendas to deal with.

That isn't proof of innocence it is proof of not getting caught... there is enough circumstantial evidence to cast doubt to his innocence.. like the 100,000 dollar donation he payed to a cycling body the day they were about to release a positive test...

the majority of the cycling community accept he doped but just never got caught, even people who know him feel the same way.. but there is just no proof... I think he is a fantastic athlete and one of the best Tour de France riders ever... but he took drugs...

How many was he unavailable for?....I dont know myself but the general concensus amonst his fraternity is that its quite a high figure....American drug testing in sport esp the Olympics is very different to the international standards.....indeed American partipication in internation competition is very different....the hosting of the World Cup here was funny....there will be no more of them here.

Gee Kurt, you’re really giving Armstrong the benefit of the doubt!

He’s guilty, but there is not proof?!?

Sure there is! There are scores of physiologists who have studied and measured Armstrong, and they’ve published their data.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050615061032.htm

What is known, and has been measured, is that Armstrong has a physiology that is better than anyone he races against. This innate ability to consume and convert oxygen, to pump blood and continue to work at a heart rate of 200 BPM is at a level much greater than other elite athletes. The people who have studied his capabilities were in the perfect position to detect doping and would have distanced themselves in a heartbeat if they suspected he was jacked up.

The USADA claims Armstrong used EPO, testosterone and human growth hormone… all of which are detectable in either blood or urine tests… but you say there is no proof? Armstrong claims to have taken 500 doing tests (I don't know if that's a valid number) but I do know he's never failed one.

The USADA also says their data is based on blood taken in 2009 and 2010... WTF, if I'm not mistaken it's the middle of 2012! It took a while for them to get the test results back?

What I know from watching him ride in the Tour is best illustrated a few years ago when he and Ulrich were battling for the overall lead and were racing in the mountains. Armstrong kept attacking and Ulrich kept responding, but at one point Armstrong looked back at Ulrich… really stared at him and then just dropped the hammer. Ulrich didn’t have anything.

I don’t think Armstrong doped… he didn’t need a better body, he could beat everyone with his will.

I forgot to post this. It's from the Armstrong site, so grain of salt! But these are his blood results for 2008 and 2009. The important numbers are Hemoglobn and HCT, he's not even close to the upper limit of normal for either value(17 g/dL and 50%) and both values move in a very narrow range.

http://cdn-community2.livestrong.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/10/c981f7be-e46c-4245-aa9d-d61ae110a264.Full.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2012 11:33PM by Steve64B.

Witch hunt!

Long live Lance. I don't care if he doped as long as they prosecute all doping cyclists with the same vigor. But I bet they don't! Easier to make your name on a big gun like Lance.

Doping makes you stronger but doesn't reduce the pain and effort. The man is physical freak with an amazing ability. If you never saw him ride you missed out on something you wont see for a long time to come. I was lucky enough to see him ride a few times I am in awe at what him and other elite cyclists like him can do.

Let them man retire with dignity and clean up the boys that are doing it. I can't believe the US would do this after the French have been trying unsuccessfully for years.

Go Lance

OK, so what WOULD be proof??

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1979 Roadster (Big Red) daily driver.
unknown GT somewhere in the future.
09 Accent

Don't got to bed made - stay up all night plotting revenge

My take: I don't give a rip whether he wuz or wuz not. I hate competitive cycling worse than I hate NASCAR. Nothing but a bunch of gurley boys in their black tights proving their manhood by cutting off blood circulation to their testicles to the extent that they become sterile... Bunch of pansies.

Two things I can promise you: (1) The French have had a bee up their collective butt to disqualify him because he has beat the sh!+ out of them all his competitive career on their home court, and (2) Nearly all professional and most amateur athletes would sell their souls to Beelzebub for any kind of edge over the competition.

I was a bit tentative to post this here but the responses are very good.

My 2 cents.

I agree very much with Kurt's points above. Especially the fact that Lance's money and the money other's were / are making off the sport covered up allot I'm sure.

Regarding "as long as they prosecute all doping cyclists with the same vigor. But I bet they don't!"

They do. Jan Ulrich was as big or bigger than Lance in Germany and Europe, they caught him and prosecuted.
Alberto Contador. The greatest stage racer since Lance. 2 Grand Tour tiles taken away (Tour and Giro)
Valverde
Basso
etc. etc. all big names and big personalities in their countries

One last comment. I was lucky have raced against some the other convicted / admitted dopers. It leaves me wondering if they were just better than me or were on something. Probably the former but I'll never know.

PS: Lance doped.

Ok.. look at it this way... if you cheated on your wife and she looked in your pone 500 times but didn't find anything does that mean it didn't happen?

But now all your friends are saying listen i saw him having sex with someone, but there is no physical proof does that still mean it didn't happen?

There is enough evidence to show that Lance did dope... He did have a positive test... but was able to produce a backdated prescription for the drug... He donated money the day another positive test was supposed to come out, and miraculously the B sample was Tainted so they couldn't "confirm" the positive test... His blood was consistent with those that have had blood transfusions, not someone who just rode 200K in the heat... The fact they couldn't test for EPO during his run of 7 tour victories, but labs have said his blood from those tours did have EPO doping signs(the people ask why they went back and tested only him which I have to ask myself)...

His teammates that now have nothing to lose saying they were a part of it, and saw it happening, the alleged empty bags that were found to have traces of the USPostal teams blood in them...

However, There is still no real physical proof... the bags can't be proved to not have been planted because they were handled so many times so are just smoke.. not the gun... and the eye witnesses can all be discredited.. but that doesn't mean they are lieing...

If I were the UCI when Lance was making his comeback in 2009... I would have told him and his team to jack him up so full of whatever they wanted that he was competitive because the ratings were way down, and they needed him to have a good showing... these sports these days aren't about good sports they are about stories...

They needed Lance to come back, they needed him to do well for the good of the sport... and he did and it was great..

Here is an excerpt from an article in Bicycling magazine about Lance's Legacy...

"His ultimate legacy most likely is out of our hands. Fans who may not yet be alive will decide who he was. To us, today, Eddy Merckx is the greatest cyclist who ever lived, not a fraud who tested positive for a stimulant while leading the 1969 Giro d'Italia and had his 1973 Giro di Lombardia win stripped for the same. Joop Zoetemelk is the hardman who started and finished 16 Tours—a record—and won one. He's not a reprobate who was caught doping at the 1979 Tour, received a paltry penalty of a 10-minute time addition, and maintained his second-place podium spot. Jacques Anquetil is the five-time Tour winner who in 1961 took the yellow jersey on Stage 1 and wore it all the way to Paris, not a boastful cheater who said, during a French television interview, "Leave me in peace—everybody takes dope." And Fausto Coppi is il campionissimo, the champion of champions, not an admitted doper who said on Italian television that he only took drugs when necessary—"which is nearly always."

Even the anointed best cyclist of all time Eddie Merckx doped. All the people in that era did, and they admitted it, and they are still regarded as the best cyclists... While Lance will be looked at as a fraud...

It is sad, I respect what he did regardless of if he took drugs, the accomplishment was impressive especially considering everyone else in the peleton was doing it as well... if the strip Lance they will pass the Jersey down.. however, everyone that finished second to him has been convited of doping, and most of the people who finished third did as well...

So I still say who cares.. he has done more for the sport than anyone else, which is why i think all the criminal charges went away... If this USADA one sticks it will be sad only because it will hurt the cycling and triathlon world and viewership...

Tim... I'm curious, virtually all other world class riders have been caught doping in the last decade... You called out the names Ulrich, Cantador, Vinicourove (butchered that spelling) all the way back to Myrcx (butchered that one to) except for Armstrong!

Is it just because as Kurt noted he donated $100K... which I think everyone would admit is chump change in the scope of things. Is it just because every anti-doping group doesn't care if Lance dopes?

The link above has Lances numbers from the 2009 Tour. If he was doing EPO, why are his numbers so low? If he was doing auto... why are his numbers so low? Can you be doping and have a HTC still in the low 40's and HG right in the middle of normal?

Your poll doesn't have a "don't care" option so I didn't vote.

...here's one for the ages, don't kno or really care....but if he would have taken off that stupid helmet he prolly coulda gotten by with a simple can of Red Bull, assumin he got a pee break... ....can you imagine Joe Frazya in the ring with a pointed backwards plastic helmet???....they would have had to wave the three knock down rule, think about it...the Go-Rilla in a helmet...whaza worl commin 2.....

They all get pee breaks.. they announce it to the peleton, anyone who has to stop stops... the breakaways agree not to attack and actually slow down if the leader is the one who has to go... it is actually quite gentlemanly...