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Wilwood front disk brake kit for 1952 MGTD

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phoffman Peter Hoffman
Miller Place, NY, USA   USA
As the title says I am interested if anyone has experience putting a front disk brake kit on a MG TD.
This is the link to the product:
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-15020-DR&year=1952&make=MG&model=TD&option=Base

I have a customer who wants to do this as he is not happy with the braking performance on his car.
There are some instructions on the link that recommend removing the residual valve and adding a proportioning valve for this project.
He has the disk wheels, not the wire wheels.

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plus4moggie Tom Lange
Bar Harbor, ME, USA   USA
If he's dissatisfied with the car's braking, there is something wrong with the brakes. I can lock up my tires with no problem on a hard stop, Better to fix the brakes than change things over, IMHO. There is much in the archives about poor braking, both here and the other forum.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

LaVerne Avatar
LaVerne LaVerne Downey
Fruita, CO, USA   USA
1954 MG TF "Green Hornet"
1969 MG MGB
Some of us are just nuts...grinning smiley I'm in the process of converting my TF right now with an MGA adapter and MGB calipers. I agree with Tom about the brakes but I also have valid reasons for the change.

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phoffman Peter Hoffman
Miller Place, NY, USA   USA
The owner of the car is 76 and has bad knees and is recovering from chemo for lung cancer.
I was hoping to get feed back from someone who has done this conversion.
Jay Leno has a TD with disk brakes but not sure he would respond on this forum.

TD4834 Avatar
TD4834 Bill Chasser
Sacramento, CA, USA   USA
Jay’s TD was used as the prototype for the kit.

I too have standard brakes and can lock them up easily. If the brake system is in proper working order and the shoes are adjusted properly it doesn’t require a great deal of effort to apply the brakes. I doubt that changing to disc brakes is going to reduce peddle pressure.

It is more likely the piston size in the master cylinder that will most effectively aid in a required peddle pressure for a given system.

Bill Chasser
TD-4834

geezer Avatar
geezer Silver Member charles durning
Magee, MS, USA   USA
1958 MG Magnette ZB "Chick Magnette (sold)"
1967 Morris Minor 1000 Saloon (2-door) "Marvin"
1974 MG MGB GT
Peter,

I gather you are looking for effective brakes with less pedal effort.

Don't listen to the never diskers. Just because they can lock up the brakes with huge amount of pedal effort doesn't mean the older gentleman will be able to exert that amount of effort.

Though I have not installed that disc conversion, I can testify that disc brakes will transform the car. He will get effective brakes without as much pedal effort. And he won't die because disc brakes were installed.

On the residual check valve issue, I would say give the car a test drive with it in. If the front brakes drag then take it out. When I converted my Magnette (I believe basically the same brakes) I left the residual valve in the master cyl with no ill effects. I did remove the residual valve on my Morris 4 wheel disc conversion. That resulted is a low pedal. I installed a 2 psi valve and that brought the pedal up. In the TD with the rear drums you will need a 10psi for the rear. Also did not install a proportioning valve.

Another option to ease the pedal effort is to install a brake booster. Chances are the way he will be driving the car the stock brakes will be sufficient and the booster will give him his stopping power with less pedal effort.

One big advantage for disc brakes is no need for repeated adjustments.

Just my 2 cents.



Who's version of right are we talking about? When you get 10 LBC owners in a room you'll get 12 different answers.

GeorgeOhr Nonya Business
Yes, confused, USA   USA
Not on a TD but Wilwood sent me unbalanced crap, tried to tell me it wasn't; assured me it was balanced before it left several times and when I stated I was sending it back to have the balance checked. "We don't balance those rotors......"eye rolling smiley

How far out were they? The heavy spot would rotate downward at an alarmingly rapid pace on it's own with dry fit bearings

I recommend not dealing with those clowns. Fix what's there or convert like above.

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geezer Avatar
geezer Silver Member charles durning
Magee, MS, USA   USA
1958 MG Magnette ZB "Chick Magnette (sold)"
1967 Morris Minor 1000 Saloon (2-door) "Marvin"
1974 MG MGB GT
As an alternative to Wilwood, you might contact NTG in England. They offer parts for a front disc brake conversion. I've had good dealings with them.

http://www.mgbits.com/contents/en-uk/search.php?searchphrase=disc%20brake%20conversion

You kind of have to dig to find stuff on their online store. I would send them an e-mail. They will give you all of the details. BTW the conversion hub for the front disc conversion is at the bottom of the above link.



Who's version of right are we talking about? When you get 10 LBC owners in a room you'll get 12 different answers.

phoffman Peter Hoffman
Miller Place, NY, USA   USA
Thank you Charles, finally some real info.
I did put the Moss brake booster on which helped a little.
Good to know about the other info.
The car has all new brake master, wheel cylinders, shoes, hoses.
I was able to improve to braking by doing many hard stops and then adjusting all 4 corners. I did this twice and it made a big difference.

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geezer Avatar
geezer Silver Member charles durning
Magee, MS, USA   USA
1958 MG Magnette ZB "Chick Magnette (sold)"
1967 Morris Minor 1000 Saloon (2-door) "Marvin"
1974 MG MGB GT
Peter,

You're welcome. Just want to help. It looked like this thread was going to turn into a bash disc brake thread by the never diskers. Frankly I put disc brakes on everything and design my own conversions. I take a lot of grief for what I do but I just ignore those who don't have anything helpful to say.

You may be able to design your own conversion easily and inexpensively. The challenge for a TD with bolt on wheels in the front hub. NTG can supply the hub. Not sure what rotor they are using but it may be a MGB rotor. The caliper bracket is simple to make and with a little patience you have a viable disc brake conversion. I'll bet you may even be able to use the bracket for the MGA or Magnette conversion.

I'll PM you some details to think about.

Charlie D



Who's version of right are we talking about? When you get 10 LBC owners in a room you'll get 12 different answers.

Hawkmonster Avatar
Hawkmonster Joe Policastro
Flagstaff, AZ, USA   USA
Peter thank you for trying to help this gentleman driving his TD. I have a couple of suggestions and some thoughts which may stop you from spending time and the money on this conversion.

First my experience. As part of my small collection of roadsters I drive the TD, TR3, TR6 and modern ones. As you might be aware these three cars have just pads - TD, front disks and pads without a booster - TR3, and front disks and rear pads with a booster- TR6, disks on all wheels with booster. Over that span of years brake technology and pedal pressure has really been reduced. Think anti lock brakes, etc.

Here is my experience with pedal pressure. There is very little difference between the MG and TR3. The TR6 has better pedal pressure but still requires force. The modern roadsters are in the category of very light pressure except when you experience a panic stop. That being said here is my suggest for you.

Through your club and friend contacts arrange to have him drive a TR3 and TR6 and then he can see if he is able to physically able to handle the pressure.

One additional thought, as we all get older we have to accept some physical limitations and restrictions.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-13 09:45 AM by Hawkmonster.

phoffman Peter Hoffman
Miller Place, NY, USA   USA
Thanks for the info guys.
The owner who is now my friend purchased this car on ebay from Florida without having a chance to drive it.
He bought the car because the PO had installed a Ford Ranger V6 with and automatic transmission as he has trouble with his legs as stated above.
I recommended he have his local garage do this install as I am busy with 2 others cars at the moment. He also lives about 2 hours away depending on our crazy traffic.

Hawkmonster Avatar
Hawkmonster Joe Policastro
Flagstaff, AZ, USA   USA
Peter one last thought to pass onto your friend. In my experience with racing, the proportionear valve Is really necessary with a car that has after market brake mods where in the brake master was designed for for just pads. As you know it allows you to adjust the brake balance when you add disks.

That residual back flow restrictor is necessary on both the front and rear to ensure you have a complete pedal when you start to drive. Different pounds for front and rear valves. Since he is old and it is a automatic there is the potential for him to engage the automatic and realize he does not have a pedal is scary for him, the car and others.

As a friend reminds me when you increase the power above design level you need to increase the braking power or as he put It "Increase the GO and you need to increase the WHOA."

Based on engine and tranny changes, it sounds like he should do both mods - booster and disks or sell the car.

Joe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-13 11:36 AM by Hawkmonster.

phoffman Peter Hoffman
Miller Place, NY, USA   USA
So, I called Wilwood and got some information on what they recommend for using their disk brake kit.
They recommend 1000psi from the brake master cylinder, so may have to replace and relocate with one of their master cylinders.
I need to see if the engine vacuum at idle is 18 or better. Also it looks like the Moss brake booster may be too small for what they recommend.
I will see the car next week and get some more info.
They also recommend a residual pressure valve for this setup.

geezer Avatar
geezer Silver Member charles durning
Magee, MS, USA   USA
1958 MG Magnette ZB "Chick Magnette (sold)"
1967 Morris Minor 1000 Saloon (2-door) "Marvin"
1974 MG MGB GT
Peter,

As with any modification there will have to be some refinements after the brakes are installed. Don't let it frustrate you. Just change one thing at a time until you get the results you want.



Who's version of right are we talking about? When you get 10 LBC owners in a room you'll get 12 different answers.

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