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1950 mgtd barn find

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sebs1 Martin Buckingham
Caddington, beds, UK   GBR
i need someone in the know to tell me about a car ive jst bought,its 1950 bought in april tried doing a bit of research but not getting to far ,i think its a mark 2 but is its build date is too early

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Midget63 Nick Herwegh
-, Netherlands   NLD
Well it has a Mk II right hand bonnet panel.
No trace of the extra Andrex shock absorbers on the lower wishbones though....
Chassis/engine numbers will clarify a lot.
Just my 2 cts,

Nick (TD3232)

sebs1 Martin Buckingham
Caddington, beds, UK   GBR
yeah it has andrex shocks at the back and one front loose in the car but chassis no is td 1166 not td/c,unfortunatly had a engine change but is one owner to 2006

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Midget63 Nick Herwegh
-, Netherlands   NLD
Now that's interesting....thumbs up
It's an early car though (mine is TD3232 dating from September 1950).
Am I correct in stating that the registration is a 1950 Leeds issue ?
A car delivered by Appleyards of Leeds ???


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TD4834 Bill Chasser
Sacramento, CA, USA   USA
Can you show some engine pics. A TD/c would also have two fuel lines coming from the tank to dual pumps on the firewall. Would have 11/2" carbs dash pots will have three mounting screws the carb to aire pipe mounting holes will be slotted for the larger air pipe I believe but may still have the smaller 8" air cleaner or possibly a 9" air cleaner. The Andrex shocks may have been added by the owner if he possibly competed the car as all parts were available over the counter. Tom Lange is very knowledgable about the TD/Cs. I'm not sure a car that early would have a TD/c designation but most likely it would. Tom would likely know better. I'm quite new to MK IIs and have a lot yet to learn. Did you say this was a one owner car? I would be picking his brain about it.

Bill Chasser
TD 4834
TD/c 16920
TD 24060

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TD4834 Bill Chasser
Sacramento, CA, USA   USA
I didn't catch the RHD. Very few TD/Cs were built for the home market.

sebs1 Martin Buckingham
Caddington, beds, UK   GBR
thanx Nick, unfortunatly all i have is a v5, the original owner passed and the relatives didnt know where any of the paper work was that was 10 years ago!!! why i think ist a tdc is the 2 fuel lines ,andrex shocks, black badging,and the bonnet lump,but the engine has been replaced no tdc vin number and appears to be to early as i read somewhere that the first tdc was made in may 1950 chassis number 1123 which also doesnt work case thats earlier than mine, many thanx bill for your input,i would like to find out what tom has to say

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Midget63 Nick Herwegh
-, Netherlands   NLD
Congratulations Martin, you've certainly done your homework on TD MkII chassis numbers !
Indeed different sources mention TDC/1123 as the first MkII assembled in May 1950.
Although your car has a higher chassis number it was assembled a few weeks earlier. In my experience this is not unusual. The cars registration "NUB560" also hints at a 1950 car (but I'm not an expert on British registrations). What puzzles me though is that there were only four RHD Home Market TD Mk II's assembled in 1950 according to Clausager.(FMO885 and FRX941/942/943 ???)
Furthermore your car seems to have Mk II parts which are younger than the cars chassisnumber/registration (The very first Mk II's didn't have an air cleaner nor the extra bulge on the bonnet).
In all we have a few options:
1) TD1166 is a pre-production Mk II prototype. (Personally I think this is highly unlikely)
2) TD1166 started life as a normal TD with the Mk II parts installed later on in its life (but not sooner than approx one year after it was built)
3) Your car is a factory built Mk II from 1951/1952 which "got" the identity/registration from the earlier TD1166...(but then there would be a huge discrepancy between chassis number and bodynumber stamped in the wood of the tub )
From the few photos and your description it sure looks like a Mk II, however as you've already remaked the car's ID doesn't seem to fit.
Hope Tom Lange chimes in on this one....
Best wishes,
Nick (TD3232)

PS: The engine is a Nuffield factory reconditioned (pre-BMC "GoldSeal"winking smiley unit which might have the correct Mk II spec.

sebs1 Martin Buckingham
Caddington, beds, UK   GBR
cheers nick you certainly know your stuff, i think that is had the parts fitted later ,but i dont know why someone would fit the extra fuel line ,if it had not been a one owner car and not on the road since 68 i might get it to pass off as a mk2,who knows,but i love the car and is always something special,one question ,is the chassis number that is stamped in the wood visible?

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TD4834 Bill Chasser
Sacramento, CA, USA   USA
Black and white badging did not occur until much later when the appearance package came out. It is most likely a TDC donor car was had or the owner bought all the pieces over the counter.

plus4moggie Tom Lange
Bar Harbor, Maine, USA   USA
I don't think this is a Mark II; the fuel line, for one thing, is run in the wrong place. As Bill Chasser points out, all the TD/C parts were available over the counter, but it is unusual to find a car where all the mounting brackets were welded in place after manufacture. I agree with Bill that a probable donor car was a later Mark II. Have you checked the chassis number stamped on the left dumb iron? That would be revealing. And that being said, I have seen one car where I am convinced the factory production records are wrong, where a listed TD is actually a genuine TD/C - EVERY detail is in the correct place, and the way the factory did it.

I know I am flying in the face of many experts, but to set the record straight, TD/C 1123 was NOT the first Mark II car produced - 1124 was, constructed a full five days earlier (if my memory is correct).

Also, Nick, I believe that FMO is really considered the prototype Mark II car, and has features that production cars did not have - like brake scoops, bucket seats, etc. These are shown in the rare Mark II sales literature. Other than on a prototype, I would be surprised to find evidence that early Mark II cars came without an air filter unit; all the un-restored early cars I have seen have the elongated carb flange holes, showing that the early cars used the 1-1/4" air filter unit (and were strangled by it - see Tom McCahill's scathing review in Mechanix Illustrated...). Also, all the early cars I have inspected HAVE the bulge, or have ill-fitting bonnets, suggesting that they were replaced.

That being said, there is a lot still to be learned about these cars!

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

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TD4834 Bill Chasser
Sacramento, CA, USA   USA
Tom. Out of curiosity can you post pics from the literature. I would be interested in seeing the brake scoops. I have not seen the publication your speaking of. FMO? I'm not familiar with the meaning?

Thanks

Bill Chasser.

sebs1 Martin Buckingham
Caddington, beds, UK   GBR
hi tom
great to see theres some interest in this car, being a one owner car i doubt it has had a id change but could of had over the counter parts i guess but trying to figure out why,it has been laid up since 68 so finacial gain is not the case or he would of sold it ,i dont know much about these cars ,what and where exactly do i find this number on the dumb iron????iv etaken a coulpe of pics of the rear end where these shock thingys go ,this could be standard i dont know, one was in the car and 2 are missing


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Midget63 Nick Herwegh
-, Netherlands   NLD
Martin,
Information regarding the body number can be found here:
http://www.ttalk.info/Tech/BodyPlate.htm
As for the double fuel line; I think you can't run a double fuel pump on one suction line, besides it is reasonably easy to connect the second line as it is fitted to the tank instead of the drain plug.
As Tom points out: welding the brackets on the chassis for the extra Andrex dampers is far more complicated.

Tom,
Thanks for the info on TD/C1124 ! And yes indeed; FMO885 can be considered the prototype Mk II. In fact lots of features on this car were installed on the advice of Dick Jacobs. Some made it into the production Mk II's (the Andrex shockers) others not (the bucket seats). For your info: FRX941/942 and 943 had 1,5" carbs without air filters and no bulge in the bonnet. See contemporary photos of the cars in the 1950 Silverstone race. Of course these were factory race cars and didn't need air filters but why would they revert to a standard bonnet on an otherwise "standard" Mk II car ???
I like your suggestion that there were TD's kitted out as a full Mk II but still had a TD-chassisnumber. Martin's car might be one of them ?

Bill,
A photo of the brake air scoop can be found in the December 29th 1950 issue of "Autosport" magazine; John Bolster testing FRX942.
FMO885 is the British registration of the first TD Mk II; the prototype of the Mk II range. It is still on the road AFAIK.
Best wishes,

Nick (TD3232)

sebs1 Martin Buckingham
Caddington, beds, UK   GBR
jst gotta say thanx for all this ,ive also got a 69 camaro that is quite rare and did the same research on that ,i love it!!!!!

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