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Help With MG TF Cooling Problem

Posted by dtownsend

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Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #1
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: February 12, 2012 05:33PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 921

1500 motor, new 3-row radiator, new thermostat, and water pump. Car runs fine around town and on the highway without any cooling issues. The problem is in traffic or, more specifically, parade duty - any situation where it needs to idle or near idle for prolonged periods.

Have thought about the 'pusher' type auxiliary fans but my experience with pushers is that they're not very efficient, then there's the whole grill removal bit to install it.

I figure I'm not the only guy who uses his TF for parade duty from time and am also not the first guy to have a cooling problem when doing so.

Anybody out there have a solution?

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #2
LaVerne LaVerne Downey Colorado, USA 1952 MG TD "Black Bitch" 1954 MG TF "Green Hornet" 1969 MG MGB	Posted: February 12, 2012 07:52PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 4,322

There are a few things that can be addressed David but first how hot are we talking about?

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #3
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: February 13, 2012 04:53AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 921

In reply to # 1983400 by LaVerne There are a few things that can be addressed David but first how hot are we talking about?

Nearly pegs the gauge and has occasionally boiled over. Hot.

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #4
LaVerne LaVerne Downey Colorado, USA 1952 MG TD "Black Bitch" 1954 MG TF "Green Hornet" 1969 MG MGB	Posted: February 13, 2012 01:43PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 4,322

Sounds like either a circulation issue or air flow to me David.

First thing I would check is the water pump pulley. I've seen cases where the pulley was put on and the key got pushed out of the shaft causing the pulley to spin on the shaft. I'd make sure the belt isn't to loose and not spinning the pump in good fashion. Too much tension is bad also for the generator bearings but too loose and the slippage won't keep the pump turning at an optimal rpm. If possible I'd set a large fan in front of the car at idle and check if you see any improvement. If so the you might consider replacing the hand chopper stock fan with a late plastic 7 blade MGB fan. It's been done by many with reported improvement. Last time I looked Moss didn't have them any longer but Victoria British did. Pretty straight forward install but may not be doable on the TF without removing the radiator and we know what a pain that is. There are other things that can cause the over heat but you would symptoms on the road as well I believe.

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #5
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: February 13, 2012 01:55PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 921

Thanks LaVerne. I have a couple of pretty decent sized fans I can use to test the system per your suggestion. The belt tension and key way are easy check as well. Also checked out the MGB fan blade. $90 at VB. Yikes! I'll start checking the parts boards to see if anyone has a spare they want to part with, if I end up needing it.

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #6
Paul J Paul Jennings Locust Grove, Oklahoma, USA 1955 MG TF 1500	Posted: February 14, 2012 05:56AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 2,846

I don't know about our T series cars, but on the MGB series, some after market water pumps had impeller issues, as not giving proper circulation. I think the impellers were smaller than stock, not sure. PJ

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #7
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: February 14, 2012 06:25AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 921

In reply to # 1984335 by Paul J I don't know about our T series cars, but on the MGB series, some after market water pumps had impeller issues, as not giving proper circulation. I think the impellers were smaller than stock, not sure. PJ

Pump is new (last summer) from Moss so I don't know whether that's "after market" or not. Water appears to be circulating okay - when the motor is warmed up, with the radiator cap off, I can see the coolant circulating in the radiator.

In addition to LaVerne's thoughts, I'm wondering if installing an overflow bottle and vented cap might help the situation.

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #8
ddubois Dave DuBois Bremerton, WA, USA	Posted: February 14, 2012 12:22PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 4,273

"In addition to LaVerne's thoughts, I'm wondering if installing an overflow bottle and vented cap might help the situation."

Coolant recovery system only keeps the coolant from being puked out of the radiator, keeping the coolant at a constant level (which it will pretty much do itself if there is no actual leak), it won't help with cooling. Cooling issues are caused by blocked air flow (be sure that fan blades are not mounted backwards), water pump that isn't doing its job (new pumps from any of the suppliers are not OEM), timing set wrong, distributor advance mechanism not working properly. Cheers - Dave

Dave DuBois
1953 MGTD
1966 MGB
http://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/

How to advertise on this website

SU Fuel Pumps & More SU fuel pump restoration and conversion to solid state. Information and technical articles on SU fuel pumps.

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #9
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: February 14, 2012 04:47PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 921

In reply to # 1984716 by ddubois Cooling issues are caused by blocked air flow (be sure that fan blades are not mounted backwards), water pump that isn't doing its job (new pumps from any of the suppliers are not OEM), timing set wrong, distributor advance mechanism not working properly. Cheers - Dave

I haven't checked the fan blades being backwards. That's one of those oh so simple things that I wouldn't have thought of. Thanks. I compared the old pump (original) and the new pump before installing. Other than the shaft wobble in the old pump (reason for the replacement), I couldn't see any obvious differences between the two. Timing was just recently checked and adjusted correctly, ditto on the distributor advance.

So it sound like it's coming down to adequate airflow or a fan issue - poor belt tension, blades on backwards.

I appreciate everyone's input. Will be taking a look at things over the weekend, weather permitting (car in unheated garage in Vermont) and will report back on what, if anything, I discover.

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #10
LaVerne LaVerne Downey Colorado, USA 1952 MG TD "Black Bitch" 1954 MG TF "Green Hornet" 1969 MG MGB	Posted: February 14, 2012 05:20PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 4,322

Reversal of the fan blades won't make a big difference. They will pull air either way

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #11
Gary E Gary Edwards Kernersville, ,N.C., USA 1962 MG MGA MkII 1974 MG MGB GT	Posted: February 14, 2012 06:13PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,197

I had a TD once with that problem and it was the aftermarket grill. The grill fins were to flat and did not allow enough air flow. Post a picture of you grill and someone can compare to a proper grill. Even an original grill could have been reshaped.

Gary

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #12
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: February 15, 2012 07:30PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 921

Oh yeah. My avatar is my "other" project - SBF powered B track day/rally car. Almost done...but are they really ever finished?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2012 07:32PM by dtownsend.

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #13
Paul J Paul Jennings Locust Grove, Oklahoma, USA 1955 MG TF 1500	Posted: February 19, 2012 06:22AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 2,846

Unless I missed something, I haven't heard of the radiator condition! ???

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #14
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: February 19, 2012 06:35AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 921

New

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #15
Paul J Paul Jennings Locust Grove, Oklahoma, USA 1955 MG TF 1500	Posted: February 19, 2012 07:54AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 2,846

David, With everything in order, timing, thermostat, no leakage in the head gasket etc, and a new radiator, it is possible, if the block wasn't cooked during a rebuild, it's possible that a restriction could be present in the block due to a heavy rust particle that has broken loose. I've seen this before. Sometimes a back flush won't clean the water passages as well as we would like and create a hot spot. Just another thought to consider. Hope the problem gets solved. PJ

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #16
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: February 19, 2012 11:28AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 921

In reply to # 1988631 by Paul J David, With everything in order, timing, thermostat, no leakage in the head gasket etc, and a new radiator, it is possible, if the block wasn't cooked during a rebuild, it's possible that a restriction could be present in the block due to a heavy rust particle that has broken loose. I've seen this before. Sometimes a back flush won't clean the water passages as well as we would like and create a hot spot. Just another thought to consider. Hope the problem gets solved. PJ

The car was sold to me as having the motor completely re-built which, to me, would include tanking the block though I know that might not be a requirement for every builder. While I can't say much for the thoroughness of the POs work on the trim and body, his mechanical chops appear to have been first rate. That said, it can't hurt to run a flush through the motor once the weather warms a bit more.

After rummaging through my MGB spares, I found one of the six-bladed plastic fans (and spacer) mentioned in an earlier response so if it comes to that after trying LaVerne's fan test, at least it will be an inexpensive swap.

Regarding another response about the grill being OEM or aftermarket, I have to admit I'm not knowledgeable enough to discern the difference though the grill slats appear to be properly aligned when I compare them to pictures of other TFs.

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #17
LaVerne LaVerne Downey Colorado, USA 1952 MG TD "Black Bitch" 1954 MG TF "Green Hornet" 1969 MG MGB	Posted: February 19, 2012 12:47PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 4,322

David forget the slats. It's a TD issue and not a TF one. The fact that she runs ok on the road leads me to believe that it's just one of the issues I mentioned above.

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #18
dtownsend David Townsend Rutland, Vermont USA, USA	Posted: March 01, 2012 02:05PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 921

Just a note so those who were kind enough to respond to don't think I've fallen off the face of the earth. Weather in here in the great north went from sort of springlike (warm enough to work in the unheated garage) back to winter. Too damn cold out there to be productive. As soon as the temps get back to the point where my garage heat can be effective, I'll get back to solving the problem. In the meantime...

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #19
joegyoung Joe Young Asheville NC, USA 1949 MG Y-Type 1955 MG TF 1500 1959 MG MGA 1600 1968 International Binder 1973 MG MGB GT → more	Posted: April 15, 2012 06:34AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 20

I have a TF 1500 with the same issue; new radiator, pump working, but over heats at idle. It had only one "fan bar" and I had hoped that putting a second on would improve things but not so far. I am trying distributor advance timing today as I have read that can be the root of the problem. To do this I got a remote "light pipe" video so that I can actually see the mark while holding the timing light in the only place where the light can get to the mark. Bought a new timing light with an advance dial on it so I'm going to graph the whole curve just for information. I'll take a picture if this setup works.

If this doesn't work I'll try the 6 blade B fan I have. But getting to the fan bolts with the radiator in is a knuckle scraping ****! Got that fun putting the second bar on. Also the bolts are to short to bolt on the B fan and they are 6 mm x 0.75 thread so forget trying to find them locally. Moss has the longer ones but $9 and shipping for the two bolts I need, it is not pleasing. Has anyone tried fabricating a fan shroud for the TF or TD?

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Re: Help With MG TF Cooling Problem #20
ddubois Dave DuBois Bremerton, WA, USA	Posted: April 15, 2012 01:35PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 4,273

"So it sound like it's coming down to adequate airflow or a fan issue - poor belt tension, blades on backwards."

Don't tighten the belt - that will do bad things to the water pump and generator bearings and bushings. The fan belt in a T series MG should be run very loose - see the article Keep Your Belts Loose in the Other Tech Articles section of my web site at the link below in my signature block.
Cheers,

Dave DuBois
1953 MGTD
1966 MGB
http://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/

How to advertise on this website

SU Fuel Pumps & More SU fuel pump restoration and conversion to solid state. Information and technical articles on SU fuel pumps.

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