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Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus?

Posted by bluemij

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Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #1
bluemij Neil Janota Addison, IL, USA	Posted: April 23, 2012 11:57AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 161

I know there are a lot of pros and cons to wrapping headers. Anyone wish to offer a recommendation?

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #2
blackmgb Fred McConnell Hollidaysburg, Pennsylvania, USA 1992 Mazda Miata NA "MAC"	Posted: April 23, 2012 12:42PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,200

I wrapped mine because I did not have a normal heatshield. The heatshield when in place makes the car more complicated to work on and we set up the intake/carbs to come off in one piece and not having a heatshield made everything all around easier.

2012 SCCA FP MARRS Champion

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #3
Bandit Racing Donald Dickey Illinois, USA 1963 MG MGB Racecar "#99 BRG Vintage Racecar" 1965 MG MGB Racecar "#10 Huffaiker/ British Leyland"	Posted: April 23, 2012 01:28PM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 276

Do not wrap. Headers that have coatings on both the inside and outside are the way to go.

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #4
mmacquee Michael MacQueen College Park MD, USA	Posted: April 23, 2012 02:58PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 108

Ditto on the quality, high-temp coatings.

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #5
Rick Starkweather Raleigh, NC, USA	Posted: April 23, 2012 03:31PM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 711

Don, Michael:

Who did you use for the hi-temp coatings? Want to send my headers out ASAP.

Rick

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #6
Bandit Racing Donald Dickey Illinois, USA 1963 MG MGB Racecar "#99 BRG Vintage Racecar" 1965 MG MGB Racecar "#10 Huffaiker/ British Leyland"	Posted: April 23, 2012 03:44PM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 276

Rick

I use Jet Hot. They have a multitude of types and colors.

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #7
mmacquee Michael MacQueen College Park MD, USA	Posted: April 23, 2012 03:50PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 108

Swaintech. Not cheap, but good and durable, and pretty quick turnaround time too.

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #8
dcharnet Donald Charnetski Grinnell, Iowa, USA 1963 MG MGB	Posted: April 23, 2012 04:27PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 950

In reply to # 2048065 by bluemij I know there are a lot of pros and cons to wrapping headers. Anyone wish to offer a recommendation?

The ONLY "pro" I have ever heard for wrapping a header is when one racer's motor caught fire, the smoke from the wrapping, now itself on fire, tipped him off early. Not really a pro.

Ceramic coat, don't wrap.

And, you usually get what you pay for.

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #9
Speedracer Hap Waldrop Greenville, SC, USA 1967 MG MGB "The Biscuit"	Posted: April 23, 2012 04:39PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 20,604

I wrapped my headers for 30 years, but what do I know grinning smiley

Hap Waldrop
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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #10
dcharnet Donald Charnetski Grinnell, Iowa, USA 1963 MG MGB	Posted: April 23, 2012 07:47PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 950

In reply to # 2048313 by Speedracer I wrapped my headers for 30 years, but what do I know grinning smiley

Hap, as I see it, this presents a golden opportunity for you. Get this one header wrap thing right, finally, and then you will know everything.

Don

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #11
Speedracer Hap Waldrop Greenville, SC, USA 1967 MG MGB "The Biscuit"	Posted: April 24, 2012 05:13AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 20,604

In reply to # 2048516 by dcharnet

In reply to # 2048313 by Speedracer I wrapped my headers for 30 years, but what do I know grinning smiley

Hap, as I see it, this presents a golden opportunity for you. Get this one header wrap thing right, finally, and then you will know everything.

Don

Ah, Don, I don't know it all, but not for lack of trying smiling smiley

Maybe Neil, didn't want to spend a couple hundred dollars or more on ceramic coating his header and wanted to know if the coating added HP, or wrapping a header loses HP, not what's in trend for this year's racer, but rather does it work or hurt. The bottom line is ceramic coatings typically burn off the first few inches of the header over time, but they are getting better, and wrapping a header, serves no disadvantages in header durabilty or HP loss, or gain, unless keeping heat away from the carbs is a gain, and both methods do that. So Neil I wrapped my headers for years, I normally re do it ever 2-3 events, and clean the headers well each time I do it, I clean the headers with scotchbrite and then coat them down with WD40, then wipe it off. When I wash the car, and engine bay, like I did this past weekend, I like to crank the engine up afterwards and let the header heat up and get the water out of the wrap from washing the engine bay, and when the wrap is brand new, it goes thru a curing stage the first time you crank the car up, and will smoke from the wrap, and stink, it's best to do this outside, after it cures that first time, it will not do that again. Bottom line is, header wrap does what it claims, keeps heat away from your carbs, and does not do anything to hurt performance.

Hap Waldrop
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2012 06:04AM by Speedracer.

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #12
dcharnet Donald Charnetski Grinnell, Iowa, USA 1963 MG MGB	Posted: April 24, 2012 07:29AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 950

Hap:

Both my FF and FV had good quality ceramic coatings inside and out. The coating on the FF was many years old and showed no signs of deterioration of any kind. I double-coated the Vee when I built it in 03, and when I sold in '11 it was in perfect shape. All I ever did on either was quickly wipe the surface with WD 40.

What I read from neutral, authoritative sources is that ceramic coating absorbs no heat. It keeps the heat within the tube and forces it out the exhaust, whereas header wrap absorbs the heat and holds it, right where you don't want it. The higher ambient temp outside the header with header wrap has been confirmed with simple testing. That is HP lost, pure and simple.

Header wrap will rust a header unless, apparently, you remove it and do what you do. I know this from personal experience on a BMW 2002.

What do high-tech pro engine builders and upper-level race teams do? I have not researched this, but I suspect that with the introduction of ceramic and other coatings, no one at that level uses header wrap. Why?

Initial lower cost is the only reason I can see to use it. Other than that, why do you think it is the better choice?

Don

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2012 07:48AM by dcharnet.

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #13
Speedracer Hap Waldrop Greenville, SC, USA 1967 MG MGB "The Biscuit"	Posted: April 24, 2012 08:20AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 20,604

Don, sorry ain't buying it, says the man who works on his own car.

Hap Waldrop
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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #14
dcharnet Donald Charnetski Grinnell, Iowa, USA 1963 MG MGB	Posted: April 24, 2012 09:00AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 950

In reply to # 2048837 by Speedracer Don, sorry ain't buying it, says the man who works on his own car.

Hap, I don't do this for a living like you, but except for rebuilds, I work on my own cars just like most of us do, and have been fussing with this stuff long enough to know which end is up. I have high regard for your general expertise, but think that you are wrong on this point. This forum is about public discussion and analysis. We can let the content of his thread speak for itself, leave it at that, and not get into a £¥+|<% match. I value communication with you too much for that.

Don

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #15
bluemij Neil Janota Addison, IL, USA	Posted: April 24, 2012 09:01AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 161

My main interest is to reduce the heat near the carbs, and also, hopefully, reduce overall temperature under the hood. Spridgets are notorious for retaining heat in the engine bay, and most organizations don't allow hood venting.

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #16
bluemij Neil Janota Addison, IL, USA	Posted: April 24, 2012 10:23AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 161

Just want to thank everyone (particularly Hap and Don)for contributing learned opinions to this thread. These kinds of diversified opinions are great for sharing real life experiences that will ultimately help myself and others make good choices. smiling smiley

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #17
Speedracer Hap Waldrop Greenville, SC, USA 1967 MG MGB "The Biscuit"	Posted: April 24, 2012 01:36PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 20,604

Don, my remarks to you were a bit of mean spritied and I have say I'm sorry for that resopnse, it's been tough morning and I'm having to deal with some totally stupid BS, thats ticking me off, and I took it out on you. Now that being said, I always of the opinion, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and I think we proved you can have spme pretty fast cars with header wrap on them, everyone is due an opinion, and we both have one. It's not that I'm against cermaic coating a header, I just not of the opinion header wrap is evil, or a HP robber.

Hap Waldrop
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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #18
dcharnet Donald Charnetski Grinnell, Iowa, USA 1963 MG MGB	Posted: April 24, 2012 02:42PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 950

In reply to # 2049071 by Speedracer Don, my remarks to you were a bit of mean spritied and I have say I'm sorry for that resopnse, it's been tough morning and I'm having to deal with some totally stupid BS, thats ticking me off, and I took it out on you. Now that being said, I always of the opinion, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and I think we proved you can have spme pretty fast cars with header wrap on them, everyone is due an opinion, and we both have one. It's not that I'm against cermaic coating a header, I just not of the opinion header wrap is evil, or a HP robber.

Hap, thanks, but no need for an apology. I understand what you are saying, and I do love an intense exchange, especially with you. Hope your day goes better.

Don

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #19
Steve64B Steve Opitz Phoenix, AZ, USA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: April 24, 2012 03:00PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 8,482

The data is on the internet, this is a synopsis from several different articles.

In an actual tests this is what has been discovered about coatings and header wrap.

On a dyno neither produce extra HP. This may not hold true on track because the air feed in the dyno is controlled and unaffected by the heat generated in motor operation.

Ceramic coatings lowered radiated temperature on 304 SS by roughly 15%

Header wrap lowered the radiated temperature by about 20%

The coatings protect the metal from corrosion… the kind caused by header wrap.

Coatings extended parts life… header wrap shortens parts life.

It would appear that it’s not a case of either / or. Coat your header first for protection, then wrap it for increased insulation. The net gain could approach 30% to 40% lower underhood temperature, which could provide improved performance.

For street use header wrap also quiets header ring.

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Re: Headers To wrap or not to wrap - Cnsnsus? #20
blackmgb Fred McConnell Hollidaysburg, Pennsylvania, USA 1992 Mazda Miata NA "MAC"	Posted: April 24, 2012 03:19PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,200

I would pull the engine at least once a year, or more, so the headers always got a fresh coat of paint. They did not have any coatings on them.

My new headers do have a coating. None of this stuff is cheap, so doing what keeps them lasting the longest is not a bad idea.

2012 SCCA FP MARRS Champion

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