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engine running hot

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mstemp Avatar
mstemp Silver Member Mike Stemp
Calgary, Alberta, Canada   CAN
Bill,

Would a 65 mustang 6 cyl aloy rad not have the correct hose locations? They are bottom L, top R and both 1 1/4". I like the looks of this ACP Alloy rad, tank look etc. not the cheapest though, Northern radiators has similar for much less. I am just fitting a similar one to my V8 but it's a 2 row 1.25" core version. Need to trim the side mounting rails to fit RB cars plus open the lower panel in front of sway bar to fit puller fan etc.

https://www.cjponyparts.com/acp-radiator-maxcore-plus-3-row-aluminum-type-251-oe-style-6-cylinder-1965-1966/p/RADA91/

Here's the exact one I am talking about, no photo though.

https://www.cjponyparts.com/acp-radiator-maxcore-performance-2-row-aluminum-type-251-oe-style-6-cylinder-1965-1966/p/RADA84/

Northern version but will need an adapter hose for bottom.

https://www.northernfactory.com/AUTOMOTIVE_-_LIGHT_TRUCK/FORD/MUSTANG/1965/205064



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-11 09:14 AM by mstemp.

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billhall Avatar
billhall bill hall
tucson, az, USA   USA
I think I looked at the mustang radiators when I first did the conversion but it was a long time ago. I think it was to tall has anyone fit one in a chrome bumper car?

darnoc31 sandy sanders
hudson, florida, USA   USA
This may not pertain to your heating but.
Some of the new water pumps turn in the opposite direction.
Sandy

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cstrong45 Avatar
cstrong45 Silver Member Charles Strong
Bainbridge Island, Washington, USA   USA
In reply to # 3608012 by billhall I think I looked at the mustang radiators when I first did the conversion but it was a long time ago. I think it was to tall has anyone fit one in a chrome bumper car?

I have one I bought on Ebay that fits in ok. You have to fabricate brackets. It hangs down a bit but plenty of guys including myself live with it. I leaned mine back towards the engine a bit. I have a 78 B. Be sure and protect the fins when working with the rad, they bend very easily. The inlet and outlets work fine, the top one should be on the passenger side and botton on the drivers slde. good luck.

theonlyiceman53 Avatar
theonlyiceman53 Bill Russell
Florida, USA   USA
1974 MG MGB "Frankenstien"
1977 MG MGB "Wicked"
Does the following mean that it was running a tooth cog before?

"I pulled the radiator later during the day today and dropped it off to get tanked will see if that solves the problem. but it did give me a chance to change the pulley while I was at it now it has Bills water pulley that I had changed to a smooth profile to run on the back of the belt."

That would make me think the rotation was not reverse before. Water pumps will not work if they are not designed for the correct rotation.


Are you bypassing the heater by chance? If you don't have a valve in the line it will bypass the radiator and cause the motor to gradually build up heat.

Any chance of a blown head gasket?

Good Luck,
Bill

billhall Avatar
billhall bill hall
tucson, az, USA   USA
Thanks Bill I do have a valve to shut water flow to the heater but I have been running it with it open are you saying that it's better to run it with it closed so the flow won't run through that part of the circuit?
I had the radiator dipped in the acid solution by the radiator shop just to make sure it wasn't build up causing the issue.
The engine is a new long block from a 93 Camaro and my timing cover is set up for a reverse water pump. I bought bills pulley kit because I couldn't align the old set up with the factory alternator bracket well enough to keep the belt from squeeling until it warmed up or if I got rid of the sound it would slip the belt off the crank pulley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-11 01:10 PM by billhall.

Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd., USA   USA
Contrary to popular opinion water pumps will pump water with reverse rotation as they rely on centrifugal force. They may not be as efficient, that depends on the vane angle and the outlet configuration. But they all bring the water in to the center and force it to the outside.

Jim

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theonlyiceman53 Avatar
theonlyiceman53 Bill Russell
Florida, USA   USA
1974 MG MGB "Frankenstien"
1977 MG MGB "Wicked"
Hi BIll,
Just try blocking it off and see if it helps. The water heater short circuits the radiator so that the heater gets warmer faster in the winter. In the summer it can cause the system to get hotter and hotter. It cured my Jensen because I had just run a hose between the inlet and outlet without a valve or restriction. BLocked it off and the radiator was able to cool it down just fine.

And you are positive it is the correct water pump? I'm not familiar with that engine but SBC are impossible to tell from the outside and they will not cool if they are not correct.

Cheers,
Bill

billhall Avatar
billhall bill hall
tucson, az, USA   USA
Thank Bill I will give it a try when I get home from work.
Iam pretty sure I have the other component correct. You can change the flow on the engine by changing the timing cover and the pulley set up. The timing cover is for a reverse water pump which is different in appearance than the clockwise water pump. the pulley set up that uses the back of the belt is also for a reverse water pump and the 93 Camero water pump should be a reverse pump.

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theonlyiceman53 Avatar
theonlyiceman53 Bill Russell
Florida, USA   USA
1974 MG MGB "Frankenstien"
1977 MG MGB "Wicked"
Hi Jim Blackwood,
I agree that centrifugal pumps will pump with incorrect rotation but with greatly reduced flow and pressure. I base this on first hand experience with dairy factory startups. They are loaded with centrifugal pumps and that is the first thing to check if you have a pump that can't get flow. I've never done a Amp comparison between a pump with correct rotation versus one with incorrect but I bet it would be interesting. I tried looking up the pump curve on an automotive centrifugal pump but I had no luck. Perhaps someone has access to one? It would be interesting to setup a test bench and check the curve of various pumps. I'll put that on the list of things to do when I get old (too late) and not able to do heavy lifting anymore!

The use of variable speed drives has pointed out that the flow of Centrifugal pumps is very dependant on RPM as borne out by affinity laws. Get too low an RPM and the pump will not pump at all. This of course depends on head pressure and NPS. I've had pumps with low NPS and low RPM's not pumping at all which was established by taking the clamps off the inlet line at the machine and not getting doused with ice cream mix! Needless to say it was an eye opener for the customer as he thought I was crazy when I took off the clamps. Can't beat experience when it comes to troubleshooting.

Cheers,
Bill

billhall Avatar
billhall bill hall
tucson, az, USA   USA
Next up date. I reviewed the order from rock auto the water pump is a Cordone select for a 93 3.4 Camero, called the Cordone company and the verified it is a counter counterclockwise rotating water pump. Drove the car to work this am temp was good but only 76 deg outside will see how she does after work in 95 deg weather. I also shut the water to the heater core off

BMC Avatar
BMC Gold Member Brian Mc Cullough
Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA   USA
A few things to consider.

Even though you are trying to keep it cool, this engine normally ran at 220 when new with the cooling fans coming on from the factory in 1995 at around 235*F.

Having your fans come on at 170 is generally considered too low, even for a carb car with a 160* stat. The fans should come on no cooler than about 185* if you have the 160* thermostat.

I se you say the engine should have the reverse pulley water pump, make sure it does. For those who don't know- the water always flows in the same direction but the belt is changed according to the front timing cover AND pump combo.

Removal of the thermostat will generally cause water to circulate a bit fast and some say does not give proper time to cool down. A restrictor plate is sometimes used but a thermostat is best.

Agreed, a switch to the aluminium radiator will not fix a problem unless it is that the radiator is too small. We're due to get our next batch of aluminium radiators in a few weeks. They cost more than the ebay specials but they are built to work with the 3.4L engines specifically.

Which model year radiator are you running?

-BMC.


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theonlyiceman53 Avatar
theonlyiceman53 Bill Russell
Florida, USA   USA
1974 MG MGB "Frankenstien"
1977 MG MGB "Wicked"
I used the biggest radiator I could find in both my Chevy conversions. The Small block is an Gen 2 LT1 with Gen 1 heads so there is no provision for a thermostat. On the hottest days the temp barely reaches 160 while on the road with no fan. If I don't turn on the fans at a light it will gradually increase to 200 but by then I will have remembered to turn on the fans. I know the dangers of water buildup in the oil from too low a temp and also theoretical problems with piston expansion but I also know there is a big difference in the thermal expansion of aluminum and cast iron. I would rather change the oil more often than increase the risk of blown head gaskets. Just my opinion. The big block runs a bit hotter but not by much. I use an electric water pump on it. The small block has been running for about 10 years with no ill effects. I think the manufacturers went to higher temps to decrease pollutants. I noticed long ago that engines have more power when cooler.
Cheers,
Bill

billhall Avatar
billhall bill hall
tucson, az, USA   USA
Hi Brian
The water pump is a cordon select for a 93 3.4 Camaro and according to the company it is a reverse flow water pump, the radiator is a 69 mgb radiator that was re-cored with as big as a core as could be placed within the top and bottom tank. with two, 9 inch fans 1500 cfm a piece mounted as pushers.
just out of curiosity at what temperature should I be concerned that the engine is running to hot.
I took a look at your radiator kit, it looks like it is made for a rubber bumper car mine is a 69 mgb but there is no clear pictures of what is included with the set up you offer.
also when verifying engine tem with a temp gun what area of the block are we checking at ( by the temp sender ?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-13 03:42 PM by billhall.

billhall Avatar
billhall bill hall
tucson, az, USA   USA
Ok, drove the car to work today. of course it did fine in the morning 76 deg out side. on the way home 92 deg out side I had to turn around after leaving the free way in rush hour, the temp was about 200 when I got back on the free way and the car cooled to 190.. On the return trip when I left the freeway she was at about 194 by the time I got home 200 with easy driving on the stop and go traffic. I drove around my block with some aggressive driving and the temp increased to about 217 by the time I got to the carport. once around the block. so it would seem that unless I am driving on the freeway the car is unable to lower its running temperature at stop lights or at city street speeds. .

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