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The GM HTOB

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Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd., USA   USA
I am aware that some of you have used the GM OEM HTOB. That is a most excellent idea considering that they can be had for as little as about $50 and compares very favorably with units such as the Howe, and being OEM should be very reliable. However, I have a few questions about how this is done. I have bought one of these units, a Luk (Chinese) replacement part. Photos attached.

-- So first, what did you use for lines? The attachments on this seem rather odd.

-- Next. since it does not fit over the existing nose piece (the bearing retainer) I'm guessing that has to come off. But it has 4 bolts holding it and the HTOB has only 2, besides which it seemed to me like they looked smaller.

Aside from that it appears to be a quality piece and has a smooth action. I look forward to seeing how to make it work.

Jim

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260mgb Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA, USA   USA
Jim. Jack(Mustangsix) had a picture of that hooked up to AN fittings a while back.

Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd., USA   USA
http://www.mgexp.com/phile/40/353091/T5_HTOB_retainer.jpg

This seems to be the main issue with using the OEM HTOB, where do you get this bearing retainer, and what is the application? So far I haven't been able to find eve one listing for it.

Jim

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260mgb Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA, USA   USA
Probably 96-2000 Camaro 3800.

nonracer Gold Member Steve Codianni
AZ, USA   USA
I got a 1997 T5 from a Camaro v6 , same retainer .

In reply to # 3509514 by 260mgb Probably 96-2000 Camaro 3800.

Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd., USA   USA
Can't find it.

Maybe one of you guys will have better luck.

I guess I can make one. Not really that hard to do and I should have the material for it. But that sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it? So unless someone can find a source my advice is, don't do it.

Jim

nonracer Gold Member Steve Codianni
AZ, USA   USA
Russell Performance 641001
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/rus-641001



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-05-11 08:11 PM by nonracer.

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Mustangsix Avatar
Mustangsix Gold Member Jack Collins
Orlando, FL, USA   USA
Those are the fittings we used. You could try the dealer for that 98- 00 bearing retainer or maybe Anaheim Gear.


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Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd., USA   USA
No luck there either. Anaheim gear's online store has bearing retainers, but not that one. GM parts online don't go back that old.

260mgb Jim Nichols
Sequim,WA, USA   USA
Jim, Dodge Viper uses a similar HTOB as the bearing retainer.

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Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd., USA   USA
I've got to cut to the chase guys, I don't have enough time left to mess around. The T4 in the shed uses the same standard part so I'll just take one and cut it down, redrill the HTOB flange to match the 4 bolts and use studs and spacers to mount it.

For the benefit of the community though, if it were possible to come up with a part number and a reliable source for that flat bearing retainer it'd be a boon to anybody else who wanted to try this.

But, at this point, in the absence of a part number and source, unless you already have the transmission with this part on it, the best advice I can give is, don't bother.

Jim

Mustangsix Avatar
Mustangsix Gold Member Jack Collins
Orlando, FL, USA   USA
The 2005-2010 Ford V6 also uses a T5 with a similar front bearing retainer. The Ford stock HTOB looks almost identical to the GM piece.

Frankly, that's a part that likely never wears out. I'm sure you can get one for either the Mustang or Camaro but it will probably take a trip to the dealer parts counter to crack open a catalog or fiche. I doubt you will find it in an online catalog anywhere, but there are any number of transmission shops you could call.


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V8MGBV8 Avatar
V8MGBV8 Carl Floyd
Kinggsport, TN, USA   USA
In reply to # 3509970 by Mustangsix The 2005-2010 Ford V6 also uses a T5 with a similar front bearing retainer. The Ford stock HTOB looks almost identical to the GM piece.

Frankly, that's a part that likely never wears out. I'm sure you can get one for either the Mustang or Camaro but it will probably take a trip to the dealer parts counter to crack open a catalog or fiche. I doubt you will find it in an online catalog anywhere, but there are any number of transmission shops you could call.

All the pics I find, show that the Ford retainer does not have provisions for bolting on the HTOB. It must wear, cause replacements are available for Ford. I even found a forum where someone was asking how to replace it. There is a bearing race that is inside the tube to support the input shaft.

Mustangsix Avatar
Mustangsix Gold Member Jack Collins
Orlando, FL, USA   USA
Look at the 2005-2010 T5. It's made like the Camaro.

There are replacements for the earlier ones because the tubes were prone to wear.

Here's a side shot and a front shot from the bell of that particular version stubby T5. You can make out the retainer.





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Jim Blackwood Avatar
Jim Blackwood * BlownMGB-V8
Gunpowder Rd., USA   USA
I'll go by the Ford dealer and see what they can do. Maybe tomorrow. 2010 parts could be available online. If not, I have elongated the holes to match two of the retainer bolts and can put standoffs under the heads of the other two to give 4 point support. That should be adequate.

I assembled flywheel, clutch and bellhousing and measured to the fingers. With the Hayes PP I have just over 2-11/16" of space to work with. The HTOB fully compressed is a bit too tall, something around 3/8". This with the HTOB sitting on the input shaft and no bearing retainer. It'll have to be cut down some. Fortunately the modular construction makes this quite feasible.

The attached photos show the modular construction, or most of it. The bearing is easily pried off the carrier which rides in an annular groove containing the double sided piston seal. The base is a one piece cylinder with a movable seal which lifts the carrier which is plastic.

The outer wall of the cylinder can be trimmed back. The outer part of the carrier also, and the inner part as well. In fact there is nothing to keep me from making up a new carrier in any length I want. So I can make it work, and do it without opening up the cylinder. That strikes me as fortunate. I don't think the big spring is needed.

The bleed screw has a 10mm x 1.5 thread, and matching that to hydraulic hose should not be difficult. The stub from the MC side can be removed from the coupler and drilled and tapped for a #3 AN (JIC) fitting. So not a whole lot of trouble there.


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