I'm all for engine swaps on MGs - to me they're a blank canvas to build on - but if you really want more power from an MG engine, why not the build up a stock one? It wouldn't be cheap, but neither is an engine swap.

Or you could do something really different like turboing it with some forged pistons. Some of the BMW guys do that with the 1980s 3-series cars. The low gear in the rear lends itself well to turbo.

Just a thought. I'm not sure it's really practical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2012 09:58PM by dhen.

Brian,

So I can get MGC 5 lug hubs and bolt them on inplace of the old hubs? just for the front though right? what do I need to do for the rears? or was that not what you were refering to doing? Please clarify for me.

Dan

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You make a funny!

If you can find them. MGC bolt on hubs are rare. If you find a set, S-10 or Camaro narrowed rear will match. MGB 5 lug aftermarket Wilwood or checkout BritishV8 site for doityourself options.

I don't want to swap rear ends that's for sure.

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Daytons toothed drive system is supposed to be substantially stronger than the Rudge spline. I am taking a chance on them with a 300hp motor. Going to be an expensive mistake if I get it wrong though!

If anyone likes to tune 72 wire wheels then they are ok
Ferrari, Maserati, Spaghetti, Macaroni etc they all used the wire wheels and they required often tuning.
It is not just the acceleration but the cornering loads.

The reason for aftermarket wheels back in the 60's was due to the flexing of the factory wheel during cornering.
The flexing was increase even further when the sticky tire was developed and that increase the wheel flex.
Also weight has a big factor for suspension and acceleration.

For straight line such as drag racing the stock wheel does a great job but it is heavy.

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It is our attitude that will determine the outcome



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2012 12:51PM by 1744.

If building for show, go with chrome or stainless wires. If for performance, go with light weight forged or spun aluminum. Everything else is in between. Weight affects ride and handling.

Jim

I should have answered your original question about engine choice.

If power is what you are after then the V8 ford is the answer. If you are going for simplicity and a good ride, then the V6 RWD is the choice. Mainly due to the simplicity of using a carb.

The MGC 6 in line is not a bad engine and there are lots of options for the engine, cams, pistons etc but be ready to pay big $$$$ for them. Prepared MGC's are fast but $ per hp are expensive.

If you have an MGC I would suggest for you not to modified the car, but it is yours.

If you are after high tech etc... then go buy a Honda S-2000.

They sure are pretty though . . .

Cheers!
Tim



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2012 03:09PM by NCtim.

I think I'm gonna convert it over to bolt-on hubs. and go from there, since cornering is something I want it to do very well. Also, I'm thinking a GM V6 will give me the best power and weight combination, like what I'm looking for.

Thank You,
Dan

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Good choice on the motor. Search my screen name for all dates and all threads created by me. You will see a lot of newbie questions from me but with priceless info that you will need.
Not all the questions are newbie related though, So seriously read through it. Good luck!
Going with a crate V6 or a used, rebuilt?

How is your B running Adam?? Still looking for the long way home ?

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It is our attitude that will determine the outcome

Running awesome and always driving the long way to most places! Thanks Bill.

I might have missed the post but no one has mentioned that the Rover V8 is factory original. The 3.5l from 1973 to 1975 and the 3.947 in the Rover retro MGB relaunch, the RV8, 1993 to 1995.

If you want originality there is nothing stopping you fitting a 4.6 from a range rover, and putting a 3.5 front cover on and original GTV8 manifolds and carbs. Cooling would probably be and issue with original exhaust manifolds and cooling fans. The RV8 approach is much better. The 4.6 is essentially the same motor but reinforced with cross bolting, thicker valley webs, and more aluminium around the bearing caps. Looks the same from the outside.
If you put in a quaif diff carrier you will eliminate the weak point of the salisbury diff', the spider gears. And of course get yourself a very good LSD.
Of course it might be cheaper to get some other axle cut down to size.

Wire wheels are all about show, they look fantastic. The splined variety are far weaker than the Dental drive wheels Geoff mentions. Nothing will break or wear out those massive teeth on the adaptors. There won't be much difference in weight between splined drive and Dental drive as the Dental adaptor could not weigh too much more than the splined part of the splined hub, might even be less. The Dental drive 15 by 6 wheel is a lb lighter than the equivalent 15 by 6 splined wheel. 15 by 6 " wheels fit under unaltered MGB rear guards. 7" wheels will almost certainly require flaring them out a little or messing about with wheel spacers and offset, plus a panhard rod.

Alloy wheels are between two and two and one half times lighter than wires if you count the splined hubs.
about 13lbs vs about 30lbs. Far less unsprung weight.
Knock off alloy wheels will have the much heavier splined centre, male and female parts and spinner. Lighter than wires, heavier than bolt on alloys.

I've a set of the Dayton Dental drive knockoffs Geoff mentions and a set of alloy superlites. I change back and forth. Currently got the alloys on. The car handles much better (and it's allot more comfortable) with the alloys. But I'm still keeping the wires, and will put them back on shortly. I miss the stylish look.

the Rover swaps are a bit pricey though aren't they? Also, I'm not sure what I have to do to bolt one in there, I haven't done the research because I thought it was one of the more expensive options...correct me if I'm mistaken.

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There is heaps on V8 conversions, the best book is by Roger Williams. Lots of net articles and blogs. Here's roger parkers.
http://www.mgcars.org.uk/v8_conversions/rogv8.html
here's some photo articles
http://www.britishv8.org/Photos-MG-Conversions.htm

Cost- It depends on how you do it. If you want heaps of BHP it will cost you heaps. For example I bought my original rover V8 motor, an uncrossbolted 4l with very low km (25K and all the efi for $2200. This lasted very well however many years later on I bought a $10000 'built' motor along with a LSDiff'. It is far cheaper for car parts in the USA so it is hard to compare.
You should consider the motor separately from the cost of Gearboxes, exhaust, cooling systems, fuel supply (carby or efi), drive shaft, traction bars.
The price of this latter is essentially fixed, no matter what the motor is. However where it is fixed, again depends on the level of the conversion. When you want to alter the rear axle, that gets expensive. But the Salisbury rear axle is very strong, so altering it is unnecessary unless you go over 250-280 BHP, which is heaps in a light weight car like the MGB. Power to weight ratio. Driving a 250plus BHP open diff' MGB in wet weather would be terrifying, it was bad enough with my original 180-190 BHP motor.
You have a range of cheap gear boxes available because of the Buick V8, same bellhousing bolt pattern as the rover because the rover motor was originally the Buick engine, just improved a bit over 30years.

You can make your own engine mounts and so forth, or buy them off the 'shelf' from Glenn and others.
It all depends on how good you make the car, or how fast you want to do the conversion. Off the shelf speeds things along.
The standard brakes and suspension, with anti tramp bars, is good enough, gets the job done, but no where near as good as Bill's brake kit and rear suspension kit for example.
http://www.classicconversionseng.com/
Best value for the money you can get I think.
His V6 kit looks good value as well, however putting a V6 in an MGB in Australia would instantly and significantly, devalue the car, and cause many difficulties getting it registered for road use. On the other hand a V8 conversion significantly increases its value by about 5 to 10 thousand, because of the factory original. It might be quite different in the USA. Best way to tell would be to check the average asking/selling price of an MGBV6 vs the average value of an MGBV8. Ebay or somewhere similar.

Yours is a '78? The rubber bumper cars all have the V8 engine compartment, even the same shaped rubber mounts although the rubber was supposed to be better quality in the V8's. I'm a little sceptical about that claim. The radiator in the 78 uses the factory V8 core, although many people tend to put in a larger radiator as the original GTV8 radiator was a bit marginal. Again, an optional thing. The RV8 exhaust system probably makes a radiator upgrade unnecessary.

You'll need an exhaust system. You can buy headers off the shelf. Different varieties, different prices. Usually between $500 and $1200 new.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2012 02:54AM by Peter-Sherman.

Good info Peter. To add to that, time = money so more time = less cost in nearly every case. But there are other things you can do as well. About 240 streetable hp is all you can reasonably expect from a BOPR. Any more and you begin to shorten the service life significantly. But, there is an inexpensive solution. The trade off is that it will require some searching.

That solution is the Buick 300 as used in the '64 Buick Special. With aluminum heads and intake it weighs a scant 50lbs more than the stock engine and you will never notice the difference. What you WILL notice is the torque and the extra change in your pocket. With 335 ft/lbs of torque at 3000 rpm and 250hp at 4800 in stock OEM form, this engine is an ideal powerplant of moderate output that creates a very sporty automobile which will pull like a freight train with a very broad power curve. Future headroom for upgrades is almost unlimited as well since the block is good for upwards of 1000hp and will accept the long stroke 350 crank. The heads are already considered a performance option for BOPRs but very good aftermarket heads are also available.

As for the cost, the engine will require some searching. Buick enthusiasts are not very weight conscious and prefer the later iron head engines and larger displacements. These "small" motors can be found for as little as $50 in running condition, but the more likely scenario is going to be around $300 average for a motor that doesn't smoke, provided you spend the time to find it, and maybe $100-$200 for a rebuildable core that hasn't been opened. The aluminum heads and 4bbl intake are valuable to sports car enthusiasts though and can bring that much on ebay by themselves. Rebuild cost is about average and can be significantly less if you shop wisely, as pistons and such frequently show up. So your engine cost can be in the $300-$2000 range quite easily if you assemble it yourself. The savings continue. Bellhousings go for about $50 (versus 200 or so) and the same for the flywheel. The stock axle can be used pending possible but not by any means mandatory future upgrade. The ONLY modification to the engine bay is cutting the openings for the RV8 style headers (paid for by the engine savings and hugely recommended, and the same headers used for the BOPR fit just fine, although versions made specifically for the 300 heads are also available) Several methods have been used to get it under the hood (just a bit taller than the BOPR) including the late model crossmember and the RV8 hood, either of which does the trick. I am a firm devotee of the engine mounts that attach to the front of the head and bolt vertically through the frame rails. Simple to make, extremely effective, easy to position, and the money saved by making them can pay for an upgraded radiator. As noted, everything else is going to be similar to any other engine swap. So the bottom line is, here is a higher powered option with greater future potential than you can get with any other swap, for less money. It results in a car with impeccable manners due to the mild state of tune, yet has the torque and horsepower to effortlessly keep up with any but a very few conversions. For an owner's perspective contact Mike Moore or Jim Stuart.

But how does it compare to the V6 swap? In general there will be more room around the V6 engine, although it too requires special considerations to avoid interferences and does have problem areas. So that part is a wash. In terms of power and especially torque it's all pretty one sided and there's no way a V6 is going to keep up with the 300. In terms of economy the V6 is going to be a little better, though perhaps not as much as you might expect, especially at (almost) comparable power levels. The V6 will be able to get by with a little smaller radiator, and a little smaller exhaust system. They will sound different. That's really about it.

In comparison to the SBF swap, cost is greatly reduced as there is no need for modified crossmembers and such. Torque is higher and on average horsepower is less, except that the SBF block is limited to about 600hp where the SBB can go 1000.

In comparison to the BBB, the conversion is simpler as there is no need to relocate the steering rack, move the steering cone, or trim the firewall opening and it can be fit under the hood. It has less torque and HP but is a little more economical.

JB

And as a final recommendation, remember this famous quote: "Horsepower sells cars, but TORQUE wins races"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2012 08:59AM by Jim Blackwood.

Just saw this over on www.mgcars.org.uk, and I quote:


That's for all post September 1976 built B's. I like bolt in stuff, that saves time, money, and extra work/hassles....so a buick 300 huh? is that an Iron block motor, cause I know the 215's and the rovers are aluminum blocks right, which an aluminum block would do another awsome thing for me, which is save weight....

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The neat thing about the 300 you can paint it silver and tell everybody "It's just a little old 215!" Now if you do the 350 Hot Rod stroker you could really blow everbody away! I've got a friend that has a 300 in a 65 Skylark, If I can talk him into selling it. The car is wrecked.