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What's the difference

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200mph Avatar
200mph Platinum Member Mike Joy
Winston-Salem, NC, USA   USA
In reply to # 3674348 by S1 Elan Apparently what we think is endearing today wasn't so well received back then... . . Kurt.

Exactly... Frogeye received very low marks for impractical under hood serviceability and lack of an opening trunk. The bug eyes were soon seen as old fashioned and basic... slapped on, not designed in. The appeal of being an "entry-level" sports car soon faded.

Cars built in last full year of Frogeye production: 18,648.

Cars built in first full year of Spridget production: 24,535.

The market spoke.



"Have you ever thought... Everyone driving slower than your MG is a MORON, everyone driving faster must be a FREAKING IDIOT!". . . George Carlin

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Kerr Avatar
Kerr Platinum Member Norm Kerr
Ann Arbor, MI, USA   USA
"The car got an opening boot and bonnet and got considerably heavier. "


Actually, according to Horler, and the Bentley manual, the Bugeye weighed 1455, and the GAN1 Midget (same engine) weighed 1400 (probably bonnet mass down and also rear springs mass down).

N

bev sleet Avatar
bev sleet Bev S
Raunds, Northamptonshire, UK   GBR
200 mph wrote spridget production 24.535 in it's first year, please allow me to correct that to spridget production was zero, you either had a sprite or midget , the term spridget is SLANG terminology when Austin and Morris amalgamated as you know. I have never seen a spridget badge on a car in all the shows I've attended and I have never seen a spridget workshop manual either, when I say workshop manual I mean a genuine one not a third party one . prove me wrong with photo's of both and I will apologise

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S1 Elan Kurt. Appley
Akron, Ia., USA   USA
In reply to # 3674437 by Kerr "The car got an opening boot and bonnet and got considerably heavier. "


Actually, according to Horler, and the Bentley manual, the Bugeye weighed 1455, and the GAN1 Midget (same engine) weighed 1400 (probably bonnet mass down and also rear springs mass down).

N

Norm, I question those figures but perhaps the difference wasn't that much. The rear springs stayed the same didn't they.

Kurt

rsvmgb1974 Avatar
rsvmgb1974 Silver Member Robert Vining
Capon Bridge, Capon Bridge, USA   USA
Maybe so, but all for not.

It is the visual impact of any vehicle that gets noticed and remembered and the Bugeye had it in spades. Weight, production numbers, etc. are just statistics soon forgotten.

Just my very humble opinion guys........

200mph Avatar
200mph Platinum Member Mike Joy
Winston-Salem, NC, USA   USA
In reply to # 3674440 by bev sleet 200mph wrote spridget production 24,535 in it's first (full) year, please allow me to correct that to spridget production was zero, you either had a sprite or midget , the term spridget is SLANG terminology when Austin and Morris amalgamated as you know. I have never seen a spridget badge on a car in all the shows I've attended and I have never seen a spridget workshop manual either...

LOL... Bev, Spridget is a term of endearment... even Horler uses it in his book (p.12). Technically it applies only to the 1961-71 cars, since all built after that were Midgets.

So, tell you what... I will remove the badging, grille and stickers from my '67, (and fill in the mounting holes). You tell me whether its a Sprite or a Midget, and I'll apologize.

Cheers, enjoy the drive!



"Have you ever thought... Everyone driving slower than your MG is a MORON, everyone driving faster must be a FREAKING IDIOT!". . . George Carlin

bev sleet Avatar
bev sleet Bev S
Raunds, Northamptonshire, UK   GBR
Mike don't take your car to bits to prove a point, we both know they used the same body shell and it was just the badge and a bit of chrome that separated them. the point I was making was that no car came out of the Abingdon factory bearing a Spridget badge , we both know the term spriget is widely used but is an adopted slang name only.

have a nice day Mike and a beer, here's one from over the pond smileys with beer

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Kerr Avatar
Kerr Platinum Member Norm Kerr
Ann Arbor, MI, USA   USA
oh yeah, that's right, the rear springs didn't change to half eliptics until January of 1964!

littlecars Avatar
littlecars David Bassett
Nashville, TN, USA   USA
1965 Chevrolet Corvair "Ski Team Transport SOLD!"
1965 MG Midget MkII "Buffoon"
1966 MG Midget MkII "Swiss Cheese"
1970 Triumph Spitfire MkIII "Tamara's Turd... SOLD!!!"    & more
In reply to # 3673978 by 200mph Mark and Kurt are right !


From 1961, the Midget got a different grille, a bright hood molding, MGB-style side moldings, and different badges on the grille, trunk, engine, steering wheel and dash. Sprite had a hood badge. That's it.

Quick fact check -- were the dashes and steering wheels actually the same in the statement above and really>> just the horn button and script on the dash different?<< Also, were the instruments all Smiths or were some Jaeger brand based on whether Austin or MG?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-05 12:04 PM by littlecars.

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200mph Avatar
200mph Platinum Member Mike Joy
Winston-Salem, NC, USA   USA
In reply to # 3675312 by littlecars Quick fact check -- were the dashes and steering wheels actually the same in the statement above and really>> just the horn button and script on the dash different?<< Also, were the instruments all Smiths or were some Jaeger brand based on whether Austin or MG?

Thanks, David. 1961 production cars had more differences. HAN6 Sprites had Frogeye steering wheels, switchgear and Smiths gauges, while GAN1 Midgets had an MG steering wheel, switches and Jaeger-labeled gauges.

Horler writes when the 1100cc engine was introduced, Smiths gauges, plus the switchgear and steering wheel were commonized across both makes.



"Have you ever thought... Everyone driving slower than your MG is a MORON, everyone driving faster must be a FREAKING IDIOT!". . . George Carlin

refisk Avatar
refisk Rick Fisk
Frankenmuth, MI, USA   USA
FWIW, Jaeger and Smiths gauges are exactly the same except for the name on the face. Jaegers were made by Smiths. Some years of the Midget got gauges labeled Jaeger, Sprites always had Smiths.


In reply to # 3675312 by littlecars Quick fact check -- were the dashes and steering wheels actually the same in the statement above and really>> just the horn button and script on the dash different?<< Also, were the instruments all Smiths or were some Jaeger brand based on whether Austin or MG?

S1 Elan Kurt. Appley
Akron, Ia., USA   USA
In reply to # 3674808 by Kerr oh yeah, that's right, the rear springs didn't change to half eliptics until January of 1964!

Norm, you are probably right about the weight but I question stated weight figures since the subject came up on the Elan forum. The weight of the Elan turned out to be different from just about every magazine test article that was done. One doesn't know if they were tested with fluids or not or if the one tester didn't just take someones word for the correct weight. In the case of the Elan, Lotus factory weights were always worth questioning. The homologated [?] weight for the race car was ridiculously low.

Kurt

Dutch 1960 Avatar
Dutch 1960 Mark Holland
San Diego, CA, USA   USA
Kurt, back in the day, all manner of uncalibrated or roughly calibrated scales were used, I'm sure. The finely calibrated digital scales of the last 20 years or so have really refined the science of measuring car weights.

In my experience, even some years ago, industrial scales weren't carefully adjusted. You would simply drive a vehicle over the scale with its load, and back over after unloading. The difference was the load weight, you always suspected it was calibrated on the light side if you were selling and on the heavy side if you were buying, and the accuracy of the starting point overall was not even a real consideration.

Back when the four scales with weights and levers were used at the weekend races (a big version of the old ones at the doctors' offices), we would roll the car back off the scale and back on, if it didn't scale out to spec. Sure enough, the second time over the scales would often yield a different result, typically more satisfactory.

I am guessing each magazine, back in the day, had access to a local set of scales that did not necessarily accurately tell the overall weight (also fluids, as you mentioned, and how about some road test equipment or other things that might have been left in the car?), but probably was fairly accurate in detecting the weight differences between each car that used that set of scales. The weight number was also probably often considered one of those "numbers you need to have in your work", though everyone was much more interested in the test drives, so only a cursory effort was made.

I'm sure Lotus always managed to "engineer" an extremely light homologstion weight on each of its cars, so that the racers would never come in light at the end of an event.

James E Avatar
James E Silver Member Jimmy Campbell
Bedford, VA, USA   USA
In reply to # 3674142 by dte948 Back in the day when "Woodie" was just a MG Midget, Girlfriend 1 had a Red 64 Midget, girlfriend 2 had a White 62 Sprite, They were
nothing alike.




Uh, the girls or the cars?

66jalopy Avatar
66jalopy Silver Member Phillip Jolliffe
Lake City, FL, USA   USA
Old industrial truck scales measure weight in 20lb increments. There are still many in service. Scrap yards buy used ones, Last time I took a load with my Morris Minor and 4'x4' trailer I got $7.00 for the load, scale master was laughing is a.. off, had me come in to show my empty weight, right at 1600lb including driver as I recall. I just hate to throw metal away or I wouldn't bother and it's only 3 miles from home.

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