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DIY supercharger option - with EFI!!!

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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
So, this is kind of neat for folks designing under-the-hood stuff. Dayco has a dimensional lookup for belts, too. http://www.daycoproducts.com/online-catalog-1?part_type=20&length_search=48&num_ribs=5

They seem to use the last three digits to signify length, final digit being tenths of an inch.

These are the increments that form a range more than broad enough to encompass the M45 setup for the 1275. Looks like it'll be between 51.38" and 53" that will be right, but we'll see when I get the pulleys and a free weekend. I looked a few of these up and they're all widely available online and local auto parts stores for peanuts. Come to think of it, I had this 'W' profile belt, which is supposed to squish into the grooves for better grip, on the old Subaru for the 40K before I sold it with no issues.

- 48.62” – part no. 5050486
- 49.02” – part no. 5050490
- 50” – part no. 5050500
- 50.59” – part no. 5050505
- 51” – part no. 5050510
- 51.38” – part no. 5050513
- 52” – part no. 5050520
- 53” – part no. 5050530
- 54” – part no. 5050540
- 54.72” – part no. 5050547
- 55.12” – part no. 5050551

Joel


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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
Here's a neat option, which I'd never seen. Still draw-through, but pretty cool. https://www.vmaxscart.co.uk/new-dcoe-supercharger-kit/

Joel


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Jim Gruber Avatar
Dayton, OH, USA   USA
Pretty Cool other than the note that says "Midgets will require bonnet mods."

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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
In reply to # 3596773 by Jim Gruber Pretty Cool other than the note that says "Midgets will require bonnet mods."

Jim,

I didn't see that but thought that might be the case looking at the forward end... other than Moss and that uber expensive (but very nice) Australian kit linked to a few posts back--which does have a special manifold option for Spridgets--this DIY M45 setup will be the only option that won't require bonnet mods.

Speak of the devil, looks like the Smooth Flow modular pulley kit for the blower may arrive tomorrow. If I can get a free half-hour, eager to see if the standard pullers I've got will yank the Mercedes M45's stock pulley, so I can finalize blower mounts. Just ordered the rebuild kit for the M45 and blind-hole, slide-hammer pilot bearing puller to remove the cup-style rear needle bearings, too.

Joel


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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
So, the Smooth Flow Modular Pulley System arrived, and it's a nice piece of kit. It has a stainless hub and a 6-rib, 6061 aluminum pulley, nice chamfers on everything, no plating but 'machine' finish that's easily polished if a person wanted a mirror finish. I will be running a 5-rib belt but there is no downside to running that on a 6-rib pulley. Actually, having an extra groove builds some forgiveness into adjusting the alternator and blower mounts upon installing the setup.

Comes with well-written instructions an allen wrench, and actually has extra countersunk/flush screws included (not pictured).

Judging from the fit and finish, I'm feeling good about getting bids from this company and my neighborhood CNC shop for the H2O pulley, rather than a full-blown round from numerous sources like I usually do (a real time sink). Actually, I may see if he wants to bid the crank pulley, too. Nothing wrong with a little friendly American competition!

I'm hoping to grab time after work tomorrow to swap pulleys and make some blower mounts!

Joel



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-23 07:14 PM by Yankeedriver.


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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
The standard pullers I had looked like they'd bend the OEM pulley and, more worrisome, may gall the shaft in the process. So, had to order a special puller. The upside is it's also an installation tool, basically the big central bolt for puller drilled out for a grub screw that fits the threaded hole in the center of the Eaton blower shafts. So, whenever it gets here, I'll mount the modular pulley kit and finalize the blower mounts.

In the meanwhile, figured out that I can use a stock 2002 or so Mini Cooper bypass valve after all. Ordinarily, these mount between the throttle body and intake ports--no good for our setup with the injector in the throttle body, as that would greatly complicate the straightforward adapter plate I've designed and which folks can make with simple tools, as I did. Also, dumping that much air into the intake manifold would spoil the mixture and confuse the idle air control valve.

The simple solution is to remove the vacuum sensor hose from where it normally senses vacuum--the valve's own body plumbed into the intake manifold (see picture)--replace it with a rubber cap, and just put another 'T' in the vacuum circuit on the Minispares manifold we're using. Then, just mount the valve on an inexpensive snorkel adapter (second picture - $11 on Amazon) that goes between the air cleaner and M45's input. One can use some of the 1/4" aluminum bar leftover from making the throttle position sensor mount to easily adapt the Mini Cooper's three-bolt flange to the pipe's two-bolt version. Another such pipe accepting the bypass air flow will either go into the ducting immediately after the blower or replace the existing one for the N/A EFI setup. In the latter position, there'd be plenty of room to incorporate the idle air control valve nipple. This position would more closely align with where the valve sits in the Mini Cooper, vis-a-vis the intercooler.

As for the valve body's location, alternatively, I may be able to simply incorporate a place for it to bolt to the M45 inlet/outlet plate, but space is fairly limited there. We'll see...

Joel



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-25 08:47 AM by Yankeedriver.


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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
Still waiting on the blower pulley puller, but the OTC blind hole/cup bearing puller arrived as well as the M45 rebuild kit.

I will post the individual SKF and INA numbers when I find my magnifying glass, so folks can save money over what I paid for a rebuild 'kit,' but here are some shots showing that one of the four collets does indeed fit the rear INA needle bearings. The next size up will fit in case this one yanks the needles out and leaves the outer race in place.

I looked at a lot of pullers, many of which were much cheaper, but this one (from Summit) has high quality collets and the hammer is heavier/beefier, and has the standard 5/8" threaded rod which mates with a plethora of aftermarket collets and fittings.

Joel


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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
Update to post 291.

I figured out how to plumb the BMW/Mini Cooper bypass valve--a real challenge.

I've ordered the balance of the parts and will post when installed (which will take a couple of weeks due to a wide variety of suppliers and shipping times). But the basic route, which will be under the throttle body, is more or less described by this $15.00, 1.5" radiator hose. Each end of the circuit will adapt using the aluminum bypass valve adapter show in post 291. The end connected to the pipe coming up from the intercooler--or not, for folks who don't want one--will use a $13.00 Cadillac thermostat housing cover, also pictured.

By the time all this plumbing stuff comes, I should have the blower pulley swapped, so I'm hoping to be able to wrap up the M45 mounts--which will in turn allow me to finalize positions of the fuse box, relays, coil and GM ignition module... and finish this design detour along the way to firing up the EFI setup!

Joel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-01 09:31 AM by Yankeedriver.


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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
Two things.

First, later on today (tomorrow or next weekend if the final part doesn't arrive today or the bypass valve adapter takes longer than anticipated), I hope to post some pics of the Mini Cooper bypass valve and blower intake tract.

Second, the neighborhood CNC shop owner had given me a bid for the M45 inlet/outlet adapter plate that I could live with, and the investor had approved it. However, I didn't pull the trigger partly because I hadn't finalized the blower mounts and need to do a 'beta' bonnet-clearance test with a prototype, but also because I want this DIY solution to be not just half as much; I want it to cost at most a third, and ideally as close as possible to a quarter of the next least-expensive option out there--while remaining competent in all regards, of course.

So, last night I designed a new/alternative plan for the M45 inlet/outlet adapter plate, which results in ~95% of the CNC routines runnable from one side of the stock, and 100% without having to reposition/reclamp the part (I'm pretty sure the big mill can simply rotate it 180 degrees for back-side machining--in this case one radius on the inlet/outlet ports). It also would eliminate the need for separate components, such as bolt-on hose barb flanges, as it would be an all-in-one billet part. Still looks cool, too, if much simpler and less swoopy than the original design--which was really sexy.

I hope to get a break in the 'day job' to meet with the shop foreman next week to confirm whether I'm right about having lopped off a significant chunk of machining time. I don't know but have my fingers crossed that I can produce an adapter that meets the 'Henry Ford' criterion. I want everyday Joes to be able to afford a blown Spridget!

Finally, unlike the rear disc brake solution that was designed around a U.S.-spec import, I believe that Eaton's M45 model no. 207018 was OEM equipment on Mercedes 230s on both sides of the pond. Perhaps folks in Europe, the UK, and Australia could confirm this...?

Joel


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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
Okay, here's a photo. You might want to open it full screen for a better look at the details.

So, the aluminum stock I had lying around wasn't wide enough to make a simple adapter plate for the bypass valve, so I just attached it temporarily to figure out the plumbing while waiting for a chunk to arrive. The other end of the hose fit right onto the above Dorman thermo housing, which bolts right to the flanged adapter pipe; all I had to do was rotate it slightly and drill a couple of holes for 1/4" bolts.

I can either use a bimetal hole saw to run O-ring grooves into the two $11 flanged pipes shown above in post 291, or I guess just get a couple of thermo housing gaskets for the Caddy that the Dorman housing services. The radiator hose in post 293 just gets two sections taken out of it and reassembled with a 1.5" aluminum connector.

You can't see from this bird's eye angle, but the bypass hose is level with the valve cover. Everything fits very well and there's no pressure on the throttle cable. I went over the throttle body because I wanted to stay away from the header and steering column. This also makes it easy to access the O2 sensor.

The routing you see to the right/aft would be the same regardless of whether one uses an intercooler. The 90-degree (wrong size, but slipped inside the flanged pipe to check the angle) at the lower left corner heads down to the intercooler's output. If not running an intercooler, one would simply use a 45-degree to head straight across between the engine and radiator to the 90-degree from the output coming off the M45 blower.

The run heading around the rear of the valve cover is just three 45-degree elbows: two 2.5" and one 2.75". The first big one (blue, only because I already had it) connects the air filter to a reducer; then there's the 2.5" flanged adapter pipe, followed by the second and third, which points right at what will be the M45's input flange. I found U.S. sources that sell these elbows extremely cheaply with T-bolt hose clamps and free shipping sometimes (no rhyme or reason).

The heater uses the through pipe integral to the Mini Spares manifold. Simple and clean.

*Update: the Volvo S40 expansion tank I was using with the Ron Davis dual-pass side-flow radiator j-u-s-t fits. People with a regular MG 'canteen-style' overflow tank will have loads of room for the plumbing, as you can see. Maybe I'll just put a pressurized cap on one of those and call it a day.

The main point of this photo is to help visualize how elegantly simple the Mini Cooper bypass circuit is. The valve's vacuum hose is to the right of this picture and not yet connected; the original barb on the valve's body is capped. The hose will be hooked into a small 'T' in the forward stem of the vacuum line.

Anyway, at idle, trailing throttle, and steady-state cruising situations when there is vacuum in the intake manifold, the diaphragm opens the 1.5" butterfly, which lets filtered air bypass the supercharger and go straight into the throttle body's throat. I didn't think to put my vacuum tester on there to see how much vacuum it takes to fully open the valve, but I'll do that and post the result when I get a chance.

Joel



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-08 07:57 PM by Yankeedriver.


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trevorwj Avatar
trevorwj Trevor Jessie
Louisville, KY, USA   USA
I've been quietly following your progress and you are certainly putting a lot of thought and research into the project, but this latest picture looks like you've done almost as much plumbing as a turbo project. Of course, you do not have to sort out an exhaust, but otherwise it looks almost as complicated. Are you keeping a running total of parts cost or are you waiting til the end to total it up?



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Denis Avatar
Denis Denis Hill
Bearii, Nth Victoria, Australia   AUS
Joel I does look like a lot of pipe work. If that's your bypass why on that side of the engine ? Excess boost can be relieved at the blower outlet, pre-cooler and back into the intake or as the ricers do into the atmosphere. Also less work for the cooler. Denis














joel



68 B roadster, Daffodil yellow, Moss supercharger, Burgess SC head, SC cam, Mikuni HSR 48 carburetor and engine built for supercharging.

73 BGT V8 conversion starting with a bare shell. Built the engine early in 2016 with high comp pistons and a few other nice bits. Started on the body late 2016 and found Its a lot of work and expense starting from scratch. Did the work myself, mechanical, body. paint etc all except the interior I have however really enjoyed this project.

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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
Trevor and Denis -

As for complexity, can't have a blow-through without inlet and outlet pipes. Only question is how long they are, which depends on one's engine bay. Here, we have an engine with exhaust and intake manifolds on the same side and no room for a blow-through supercharger so things have got to around the valve cover. No big deal.

If you compare the 'N/A EFI' and 'blown' images attached, you're looking at only three pipes to add forced induction: (i) a snorkel from air cleaner to blower inlet (rather than from air cleaner to throttle body); (ii) a pipe from blower outlet to throttle body (with or without an intercooler); and (iii) a 12" bypass connecting them.

As for fabrication, there is zero welding, which is required with a turbo; we're talking trimming and pushing hoses together and adding hose clamps, and drilling a piece of aluminum to make a simple adapter plate. Remember, my goal is the lowest possible common denominator of skills, tools, and fabrication. This is really simple stuff.

As for the expense, yes I've got receipts but haven't added them up. But the elbows are inexpensive (some include T-bolt clamps and free shipping), and the adapter flanges are $11 each, etc. So, the setup is still on track to be less than 1/2 and possibly 1/3 of the Moss draw-through--hopefully including the intercooler but I have yet to find time to sift through receipts with a calculator. As with the rear disc brake conversion, I'll provide the cheapest sources I can find.

Denis -

Yes, one can divert blower output back into the intake or burp it out into the air, but I prefer the Mini Cooper's simple method of using intake manifold vacuum to automatically/dynamically modulate the amount of air drawn into the blower and forced through the intercooler circuit. This method, proven on the Mini, both reduces blower load and increases fuel economy.

Joel



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-11 09:48 PM by Yankeedriver.


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pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, Nova Scotia, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 3608475 by Yankeedriver Trevor and Denis -


Denis -

Yes, one can divert blower output back into the intake or burp it out into the air, but I prefer the Mini Cooper's simple method of using intake manifold vacuum to automatically/dynamically modulate the amount of air drawn into the blower and forced through the intercooler circuit. This method, proven on the Mini, both reduces blower load and increases fuel economy.

Joel

This is getting confusing. The Mini Cooper has a suck through supercharger. The throttle body is before the blower. Yours is a blow through supercharger with the throttle body after the blower.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 9psi boost, "stock" high ratio rocker arms, 8:1 compression, Piper 270 cam, ported head, matched manifolds, CB Performance computerized ignition.


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Yankeedriver Avatar
Yankeedriver Platinum AdvertiserAdvertiser Joel Young
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA   USA
Adrian,

Sorry you're confused; although the bypass routing in my setup is simple, the bypass routing in the Mini Cooper is impossible to see in the labyrinth of hoses crammed into its engine bay.

The picture you posted shows the output of the supercharger feeding up directly into the intercooler, which then goes into a snorkel which, in turn, feeds into the plenum. What's hard to see here--but you can see discussed in the video I think I posted a while back with a guy diagnosing a Mini's bypass valve malfunction--is the routing of the bypass circuit ahead of the blower/intercooler. Basically, it takes air out of the intake from the air cleaner--but after the throttle body--and shunts it around the supercharger/intercooler circuit, and into the plenum, where it senses vacuum via the same 1.5" hose into which it meters air.

As for the 'blow-through vs. draw-through' issue, I think what is confusing is that, in the Mini Cooper (and most modern cars), the fuel injectors are in the intake ports, not in the throttle body. So, the (modern) Mini Cooper is not a 'draw through' system in the conventional sense, like the Moss setup, old style V-8 drag racers, etc., vis-a-vis the fuel mixture; the supercharger merely compresses air that is much later on mixed with fuel.

Therefore, while it's true that the Mini's 'air only' throttle body is ahead of the blower, the function of the bypass valve is identical in the OEM application and my setup. That is, it allows air to go around the supercharger/intercooler circuit and directly into the intake track before fuel is introduced.

If you look back at my earlier post, you'll see that my innovation to trick the Mini's bypass valve to work properly in the Spridget application, is simply to draw vacuum from where it's needed to mimic the valve's function in the OEM application--namely, after the throttle body but not from the valve itself, which in the Mini is connected to the plenum via the 1.5" hose, but which in our application is ahead of the throttle body. But in both instances, uncompressed air is introduced via the bypass valve before the fuel metering happens.

Hope that helps,

Joel



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 10:31 AM by Yankeedriver.


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