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Remove pedal box & leave clutch master in car?

Posted by Clarty

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Remove pedal box & leave clutch master in car? #1
Clarty Alex Todd Rochester, Minnesota, USA 1972 MG Midget	Posted: September 15, 2012 01:58AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 58

I've been getting a soft brake pedal recently; trying to replace brake master, but it's impossible. Can a person remove the pedal box/cluster without removing the clutch mast.er cylinder? I'm not looking forward to having to bleed the clutch again.

Thanks,

Alex J. Todd.

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Re: Remove pedal box & leave clutch master in car? #2
AmishIndy Seth Jones Wheaton, IL, USA 1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire" 2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"	Posted: September 15, 2012 04:50AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 3,054

1972 midget with a dual channel master (or tandem master cylinder as the brits called it), right? Why would you need to remove the pedal box cluster to replace the brake master cylinder? The brake master is removed by itself. Only with the much earlier combined clutch and brake master cylinder would you have that problem and no there would be no way of just replacing the brake side of that (possibly with a rebuild of the master you couldreplace only the parts on that side). Here's the instructions from the factory workshop manual for your "tandem" master cylinder.

In reply to a post by British Leyland Section Mb.2
MASTER CYLINDER

Removing
(1) Unscrew the four retaining screws and remove the pedal box cover.
(2) Disconnect the hydraulic pipes from the master cylinder.
(3) Withdraw the split pin from the push-rod clevis pin and remove the clevis pin.
(4) Unscrew the two bolts securing the master cylinder to the pedal box and remove the master cylinder.

Incidentally, the only difference between those instructions and those in section Ma.1 for the single line master cylinder is that in Ma.1 step 2 "pipes" is singular.

But if for some reason you still feel like you have no choice but to remove the pedal box. it should be possible to do without disconnecting the clutch master from the hydraulic line. To do that, you would first need to follow the exact same instructions as in section Mb.2 but skip step 2 and do it to the clutch master instead of the brake master. You would then need to remove the 8 bolts holding the pedal box in place, disconnect the brake light switch, and then simultaniously slide the pedal box forward and teh clutch master rearward until its clear of the pedal box. You would then have to lift the pedal box up and out of the car.

Seth Jones

1971 MG Midget

www.SpridgetGuru.com

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2012 06:16AM by AmishIndy.

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Re: Remove pedal box & leave clutch master in car? #3
Astrostrat89 Jeffrey Jankosky london, USA 1971 MG Midget MkIII "Blue Meanie"	Posted: September 15, 2012 11:54AM Registered: 10 months ago Posts: 278

I did mange to pull off something like this. Because the adapter was froze on the pipe I end up taking the CMC off the pedal box and left it "hanging" there while I took the rest off. Put it back on that way too. Probably not the greatest thing in the world for the pipe having to bend it around to get it out of the way . But I had nothing to loose either, I ended up replacing just about the entire clutch system, but not due to trying what you're thinking here.

Lots of tight fits all over that project, but doable. Biggest risk is kinking the pipe, and then you'll be in for a lot more then a bleeding job. Ask me how I know. (First time I've gotten to use that line!)

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Re: Remove pedal box & leave clutch master in car? #4
Clarty Alex Todd Rochester, Minnesota, USA 1972 MG Midget	Posted: September 15, 2012 03:35PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 58

Thanks. Now I've done it.

Thanks for the information, Seth. I don't know if a tool exists that would fit in the space by the brake master cylinder. I did try, and from your citation of the BMC/BL manual that states to just "remove the two bolts" or whatever it says, leaves out the part that no tool I've ever seen nor heard of will fit in there.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2012 04:03PM by Clarty.

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Re: Remove pedal box & leave clutch master in car? #5
AmishIndy Seth Jones Wheaton, IL, USA 1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire" 2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"	Posted: September 15, 2012 04:52PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 3,054

In reply to # 2170937 by Clarty Thanks. Now I've done it.

Thanks for the information, Seth. I don't know if a tool exists that would fit in the space by the brake master cylinder. I did try, and from your citation of the BMC/BL manual that states to just "remove the two bolts" or whatever it says, leaves out the part that no tool I've ever seen nor heard of will fit in there.

If British Leyland says it can be done, then a tool must exist (or have existed) somewhere to do it as described. The question is not if it exists, but wether that tool is in fact a special tool availible only to the BL service department. In this case your problem is the result of BL's reasonable assumption that its official repair manual will be read only by experienced and well equipped mechanics, and not the average do it yourselfer. They simply lack detail when it comes to things they think should be obvious. I know its possible to remove the master without removing the whole box because some years ago I replaced the master (the rear channel was completely dead) exactly as BL described. You just need the right tools.

I went out to my 1971 MG Midget just a momment ago to refresh my memory. I removed the pedal box cover and then begain exparimenting to see which tool combination worked best for each of the two bolts. This is based on what I have on hand. This is by no means the definitive method. Obviously you need a wrench of some kind on both the bolt and the nut. The upper bolt is removed using a 1/2" crescent wrench and a 1/4" drive ratchet with a 2" extension, a u-joint, and a regular 1/2" socket. The lower bolt is removed using the same 1/4" drive setup already described, and a 3/8" drive ratchet, 6" extension and a regular 1/2" socket. See attached pictures.

Reinstallation will probibly be a bit more challenging but not impossible, just remember to always ALWAYS insert the bolts from the master cylinder side of the pedal box and the nuts from the pedal side of the pedal box. I doubt you could ever get your fingers at the nuts if the bolts go in the wrong direction.

Seth Jones

1971 MG Midget

www.SpridgetGuru.com

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2012 05:25PM by AmishIndy.

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Re: Remove pedal box & leave clutch master in car? #6
cjcharvet Courtney Charvet Titusville, Florida, USA 1972 MG Midget	Posted: September 16, 2012 06:38AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 1,299

I am able to use a regular 1/4 inch drive with and extension to get to both MCs mounting bolts.

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