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Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix

Posted by Thormidget

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #21
refisk Rick Fisk Frankenmuth, Michigan, USA 1959 Austin-Healey Sprite 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite 1979 MG Midget 1500 "Party Midget"	Posted: June 19, 2012 03:47PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 2,366

In reply to # 2098052 by NYCCharlie Prop, still reading everything on your smartphone? spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

I do appreciate you expressing your admiration for Jeff's wisdom. I am sure many of us share it. But Prop you gotta upgrade to an iPad, my man. smileys with beer

Or at least a 386 desktop. smoking smiley

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #22
prop46 Prop Black Hole Midget Missouri, USA	Posted: June 19, 2012 08:10PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,582

Hahaha... Thanks jeff i appreicate that...i certianly owe you....id like to add to jeffs thoughts...buy new hardware...dont use the existing nuts and connecting rod bolts....but to be honest....

this where i get screwed up... Cause i just go to the next step and say... Heck im here, i might as well, pull the head and hone the cly and install new rings and have the big ends of the connecting rods re-trued back to round....and thus, a serious rebuild is at hand.

Charles, i definatly need an Ipad/tablet...i was looking at them a couple weeks ago at bust buy...they have really come down in price...i stumbled onto a toshibisha excite 10 that looked really cool, im just trying to find something decent. Yet top end that will still be usadle in 3-4 years

So im getting fence rash on by behind trying to figure out what is a decent one and which are dog piles

Im wanting to stay with android based... So apple ipad is not on the list. And tbh... Im not. Fan of that single little button that controls everything...not to mention everything is sealed... No sd cards, no hdmi cable slots, no usb ports, only the power cable slot... Everything else is bluetooth and wifi...you cant even transfer music and video mechanically with an SD card... Only wirelessly...gez, theres an afternoon lost looking at a progress bar slowly count down.

Prop

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2012 08:17PM by prop46.

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #23
refisk Rick Fisk Frankenmuth, Michigan, USA 1959 Austin-Healey Sprite 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite 1979 MG Midget 1500 "Party Midget"	Posted: June 19, 2012 08:14PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 2,366

In reply to # 2098294 by prop46
... Everything else is bluetooth and wifi...you cant even transfer music and video mechanically with an SD card... Only wirelessly...gez, theres an afternoon lost looking at a progress bar slowly count down.

Prop

Yeah you can. But why would you want to? Wifi is faster.

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #24
prop46 Prop Black Hole Midget Missouri, USA	Posted: June 19, 2012 08:31PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,582

Thats what they say... And i really dont have alot of experiance...other then s screwing around with friends and .instore...but im used to the SD card... Just pull out of phone put in the little usb case slip it into the laptop.. down load ... Done....but then agian, i am an old fart...and can barly keep track of all the new toys

Prop

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #25
NYCCharlie Charles Linn Lawrence, Kansas, USA	Posted: June 20, 2012 07:44AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 951

Prop, I've had my iPad since September of 2010 and until you mentioned it just now I never noticed it didn't have an SD card slot. Can you believe it? I tethered it to my laptop and downloaded my 8 gigs of songs in I dunno, 20 or 30 minutes and it was done. But who cares? I'm not about to engage in an iOS vs Android argument here. Who cares? Get what you like and have fun!! CL

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #26
prop46 Prop Black Hole Midget Missouri, USA	Posted: June 20, 2012 08:19AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,582

You dont want to get into a IOS vs android debate????

Buddy, thats why we are good friends....thats almost as bad as a long drawn out debate on wheel bearings.....im so NOT into that

Prop

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #27
NYCCharlie Charles Linn Lawrence, Kansas, USA	Posted: June 20, 2012 09:00AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 951

X 2 my good buddy... X 2
smileys with beer

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #28
Thormidget Brett Thorsland Watkins Glen, USA	Posted: June 24, 2012 02:26PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 128

This weekend I dropped the oil pan and had a look around. There was no major magnetic particles sitting in the bottom of the oil pan. There were a couple of particles that look kinda fiberous??? Everything else looks very good.

Then I measured the movement of the crankshaft by pushing the pully back towards the engine with a broomstick and had my wife push the clutch in. With a dial indicator I measured 0.012". I read it should be less than 0.010"

I pulled the cap off of the number 2 rod bearing, then pulled out the bearing. I measure the face on the crankshaft and it looks to be original size, 1.8750" if I remember right. I did not measure any of the main bearings yet.

Can I assume that if the rod bearing surfaces have not been reground, than the mains are original also? Would someone machine one and not the other? I would like to get parts ordered. Any recommendations on the Thrust Washer?

My car had a cardboard type gasket on the oil pan. Should I replace, reuse, or just use gasket maker?

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #29
oldag98 Jeff and Brittany Brackenridge Choctaw, Choctaw, Oklahoma, USA 1965 MG MGB "B" 1976 MG Midget 1500 "Yellow One" 1977 MG Midget 1500 "Dunkirk" 1979 MG Midget 1500 "Parts Car"	Posted: June 24, 2012 06:05PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 2,211

www.customthrustwasher.com could be helpful, if the std szed thrust washers won't bring you into spec. Most of the major Brit aftermarket suppliers have the std size TW and all the gaskets you will need. I suggest you email or call Robert Kirk at Kirk's Auto and get a packaged deal from him. He will give you the best price on almost any part or any materials you might need, but will be via mail. You can also get the "high performance" Spitfire 1500 parts from him, the ones you will see on the Moss Motors website for the Spitfire.
I normally do not reuse gaskets once they have been installed and removed, but if not too damaged, you can reuse. I normally use gasket sealant on one side of a new gasket, but not the other. This way, when you go to separate the parts, the gasket will stay put on one of the parts.
I would not assume anything about your engine, as you just don't know the history. Always measure. Assumptions will get you into trouble. That said, since you have disassembled this far, you should know if the gaskets and bearings you saw were original looking. If so, then roll the dice and reuse. Gaskets are not that expensive, so I'd just take the 10 minutes and couple bucks it takes to remove old and install new. However, since you are this far, why roll the dice?
Let us know how it goes...

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #30
Thormidget Brett Thorsland Watkins Glen, USA	Posted: June 25, 2012 11:59AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 128

I know the picture quality is bad, but can someone confirm that my 1500 rod bolts are "Phosphated", not "Color Dyed". I know that "Phosphated" are dull black which mine are. I don't know what color "Color Dyed" would be.

Also, when changing the rod and main bearings and thrust washer with the engine in the car, when are feeler gauges needed? The Haynes manual shows a picture of "Using feeler gauges to measure crankshaft endfloat". I think I measured crankshaft endfloat but pushing the crankshaft pulley back with a broomstick and then having someone push in the clutch, and measuring the pulley movement with a dial indicator. I measured 0.014".

As far as specifying a Thrust Washer thickness, should I measure the one that I remove and subtract it from the thickness of the new one. If the difference is like 0.007" then the endfloat problem should be corrected. Am I looking at this correctly?

Brett

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #31
Thormidget Brett Thorsland Watkins Glen, USA	Posted: June 25, 2012 12:08PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 128

Also, Is there a way to tell if the bearings are original size base on markings, or do you have to measure them? My bearings have some writing on them, but nothing that indicates a measurement.

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #32
dlrhine Dave Rhine South, Carolina, USA 1978 MG Midget	Posted: June 25, 2012 04:01PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 3,389

The bearing shells will usually have a measurement stamped in them if they're oversized as in .010, .020, etc.

As far as the thrust washer play, you want less than .010, somewhere around .005 end play is what I shot for. Some 1500 gurus have said even less, but when I went less as recommended, the engine made a strange squealing noise when I used the clutch...

I'd order a couple standards and a couple oversized .005 & .010. Just thinking out load, but if you don't fit new standard washers & measure, how would you know how much wear's on the crank so you could order special washers?

I ended up using a standard & a .005 oversize thrust washer to get in the .004/.006 range. I measured with both a dial indicator & feeler guages on the center main bearing & came up with close to the same readings.

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it 'til it is! winking smiley

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #33
Thormidget Brett Thorsland Watkins Glen, USA	Posted: June 25, 2012 08:42PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 128

Directions aren't clear on how to size them. You are right Dave, it seems like you have to install the standard size just to determine that it is not the right size, then order the right size. How thick is a standard thrust washer?

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #34
Andy74 Andy Jamieson Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada 1974 MG Midget	Posted: June 25, 2012 09:48PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 373

Brett, are you familiar with plastigauge?

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #35
Thormidget Brett Thorsland Watkins Glen, USA	Posted: June 26, 2012 05:49AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 128

I've read about Plastigauge but have never used it.

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #36
Andy74 Andy Jamieson Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada 1974 MG Midget	Posted: June 26, 2012 10:29AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 373

It looks like you've taken the rod bearings out, were the rod journals smooth and not grooved? Same with the main journals? If they have grooves ( you can check by running your fingernail lengthwise across it) then it would probably be best to have it polished or machined. Otherwise it will chew into the new bearings. And make sure to use plastigauge when you assemble.

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #37
Thormidget Brett Thorsland Watkins Glen, USA	Posted: June 26, 2012 10:49AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 128

I am not 100% certain what using the plasti-gauge is going to really do for me. I pulled out 1 rod bearing (the #2) and 1 main bearing (center one). They are both standard size. I don't believe anyone has ever been in the engine before as everything "looks" original. The journals on these two bearings look fine.

So I plan to buy new standard size rod and main bearings and just replace them (and the thrust washer). I suppose measuring the fit with a plasti-gauge when installing would tell me if they are going to work or not but I would then have new bearings that are non-returnable. So I am thinking it would be best to just install them and see if my oil pressure improves. If it doesn't improve than I wasted my time (the money was already wasted). Or my oil pump is the issue. According to John Twist in at least one vidoe, the oil pump is rarely an issue so I don't plan to change it at this time.

Please correct me if I am thinking about this incorrectly.

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #38
Andy74 Andy Jamieson Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada 1974 MG Midget	Posted: June 26, 2012 11:14AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 373

What plastigauge does is it measures the clearance between your bearing and journal. What you do is lay a strip on the bearing and install the cap, torque it to the proper spec, and then remove it again. The plastigauge will have flattened to a certain width, which you can measure with the paper wrapping of the plastigauge. You make sure this measurement is proper with the specs in the service manual, and if it is you can reinstall the bearing. The plastigauge dissolves in the oil. Do this with all the bearings to be sure. Personally, I'd rather pay the $20-30 more and find out with plastigauge that my bearings are too small than have to install new bearings, reseal the oil pan, find out there's no pressure, remove the oil pan and do it all again.

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #39
oldag98 Jeff and Brittany Brackenridge Choctaw, Choctaw, Oklahoma, USA 1965 MG MGB "B" 1976 MG Midget 1500 "Yellow One" 1977 MG Midget 1500 "Dunkirk" 1979 MG Midget 1500 "Parts Car"	Posted: June 26, 2012 12:52PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 2,211

As long as you are ordering parts, order the triumphtune high pressure oil bypass spring and a new pluger. this will prevent the bypass plunger from opening at anything other than very high oil pressure, preventing unfiltered oil from circulating. The stock pump is not a bad unit, very reliable, but can wear over many many miles. If you do get it all back together and find you have a constant low oil pressure issue, then consider a new Triumph Tune pump. The pump is usually changed as a matter of course when rebuilding an engine, but that does not mean that you have to change yours. It is a personal choice/decision, but it is the heart of the engine. Do all the mains first, then do the rod bearings, turning over the engine by hand as you go to make sure you do not get a bind. use fresh clean oil on the new bearings or engine assy lube as you put the rods back together on the crank. Try not to mix and match bearing caps or rod bolt nuts, try to put them back from where they came.

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Re: Low Oil Pressure - Hoping to wait until winter to fix #40
littlecars David Bassett Nashville, Tennessee, USA 1970 Triumph Spitfire MkIII "Tamara's Turd" 1974 MG Midget MkIII "Lizzy"	Posted: June 26, 2012 01:58PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 911

In reply to # 2098294 by prop46
Charles, i definatly need an Ipad/tablet...i was looking at them a couple weeks ago at bust buy...they have really come down in price...i stumbled onto a toshibisha excite 10 that looked really cool, i

Prop

FYI, the Toshiba should have an USB port whereas the iPad will not. Whether or not the glass is bulletproof for garage use is something else entirely. Just .2c worth before I go back to my bearing questions...... devil smiley

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