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UPDATED: Starting my rebuilt engine... SUCCESS!!

Posted by 73midget 
73midget Avatar
Chris Edwards
Texas, USA   usa
So i got up the courage to try and start my rebuilt motor... IT's so close, but not quite there yet. I checked the fluids, charged the battery, and turned it over without plugs for a few seconds at a time until the oil pressure built up. then rechecked it,put the plugs in and tried to start it. I have spark on all 4 wires, plugs are wet so i know the fuel is getting into the cylinders, but it's just not starting. Any pointers?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 12:32AM by 73midget.

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refisk Avatar
Rick Fisk
Frankenmuth, Michigan, USA   usa
Sounds like the ignition timing is off.
73midget Avatar
Chris Edwards
Texas, USA   usa
thats what i thought, but the question is how do i get it timed so it will start?

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Bob Braley Avatar
Robert Braley
Tacoma, USA   usa
Chris, for starters, did you rebuild the engine or have someone rebuild it and did it include a new camshaft (a new camshaft will require a special 2500 RPM for 15 minutes on first engine start-up>? Have you static timed the engine making sure you were at TDC on "compression stroke" #1 cylinder when you installed the distributor and set the static timing. Check the compression and set the lifters following the book steps for doing so. You said you put oil in, but did you put a pint of engine break-in fluid in the oil? In short, give me some more information and I will try to help you.
robert kirk
Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA   usa
If it is simple, someone on the starter with you under the bonnet....move the dizzy fore and aft until it finds the spot where it will start...this assumes you are getting any indication it even wants to start.

If you have no indication of an occasional "hit"....as per Mr Braley, you probably have the dizzy 180 out of time.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote
Kirk's Auto Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.
73midget Avatar
Chris Edwards
Texas, USA   usa
I rebuilt it. (not sure why this matters). yes it has a new cam shaft that will require running in on first start up (hence the need to get it to start). I have it static timed to TDC. I will double check that. I suppose it is possible that i put the drive for the distributor in backwards, but I don't think so. When i assembled the engine i had it at TDC on cylinder one and checked that the rotor pointed to number one when i put the drive in. I did this AFTER i set up the timing chain, but before the head went on, so i couldn't verify the valve position... the timing chain is set up based on the intake valve on cylinder 1 according to the instructions that came with it.

After failing to start last night i put the engine back in this position (cylinder 1 at TDC, rotor pointed to #1 wire)

So I will take off the valve cover and make sure both cylinder 1 valves are closed, right? if they are then I am on the compression stroke, if not then i got confused on assembly and put the dissy drive in 180 out. If i remember rightly i can pull the drive out with a 3/8" threaded rod? turn it and reinsert it.

IS setting it to fire at TDC close enough to make it start? (my reading indicates it should be...) I only have one timing mark for TDC so i cannot accurately set it to x degrees before. when looking at the distributor am i right that turning it to the right is more advanced and to the left more retarded?

I won't get a chance to work on it till Friday so lots of time to puzzle.

Thanks!

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prop46 Avatar
Prop Black Hole Midget
Missouri, USA   usa
Congratz.... Your wearing my shoes, sorry for the smell....lol

When i built mine, i had the exact same problem, and messed with it for like, months trying everything

Solution....

""" 1342 on the dissy is not the same as 1342 at the plugs """....Duh !!!

Hahaha.... Thats still hard to admit

Thats why its so important to have a 2 nd set of fresh eyes, whats funny, i truely belived my firing order was correct and could not be talked off of it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2012 11:25AM by prop46.
prop46 Avatar
Prop Black Hole Midget
Missouri, USA   usa
Btw... If your set up correctly, static timing on these engines is fairly broad...mine will fire with from a 1/4 before straight up on the left to layed all the way over to the right

The reasone for static im guessing is to keep the engine from starting over advanced and wreacking the engine right off the key

Ive got the SW 05 swiftune camshaft

Prop

AmishIndy Avatar
Seth Jones
Wheaton, IL, USA   usa
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire"
2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"
In reply to # 2030279 by prop46 Ive got the SW 05 swiftune camshaft

I've got the SW 5-07. Didnt know others on the forum used them.



Seth Jones

1971 MG Midget

www.SpridgetGuru.com
theleisure Avatar
sean m
Yinzburgh, PA, USA   usa
Just a quick reminder that there's a notch on the pulley that you need to find. If you're going by a nice big dimple that's been machined into the front of the pulley then something's wrong.

Yep, I did that. It just seemed so obvious at the time...

73midget Avatar
Chris Edwards
Texas, USA   usa
Thanks, you're right many people get confused by the dimple on the original pulley's. But I have a brand new one that has no dimple. The notch is one I made with a file to line up with the pointer added on top (not below) the wheel
73midget Avatar
Chris Edwards
Texas, USA   usa
YES! it was 180 out, which makes sense since i put the drive in with the head off... i set up the cam timing with is set by the intake stroke... DUH, the distributor drive should be timed to the COMPRESSION stroke. much easier to tell when that is by the valve positions.

ANYWAY, i pulled it out and turned the engine around by pushing the car in gear until the TDC mark was aligned and the first two valves were closed, and reinstalled it. Plugs in, and she fired right up. ran so smoothly even with the tuning not perfectly on. I'm just beaming.

robert kirk
Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA   usa
thumbs upsmileys with beerthumbs up



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote
Kirk's Auto Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.
73midget Avatar
Chris Edwards
Texas, USA   usa
ok... may regret posting this. Please excuse my "narration"... it's a little silly. also i filmed this with my phone in one hand, so it's a little shakey







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 01:16PM by 73midget.
robert kirk
Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA   usa
Good on your Chris!

I just hope that was me sitting so far away from your garage but it sure sounded like a recurring miss....not meaning to rain on your parade...but it sorta sounded like a complete dead hole.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote
Kirk's Auto Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.
73midget Avatar
Chris Edwards
Texas, USA   usa
oh goody, something else to work on. I'll double check that all 4 plugs are firing, hopefully nothing serious. Felt good about it for 14 hours, had to come down sometime.

robert kirk
Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA   usa
Chris, I sincerely hope I am wrong and others may chime in. But a 4 banger missing is pretty noticeable and a 4 banger running on only 3 more so. The plugs should be the tell and I hope it is something simple.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote
Kirk's Auto Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.
littlecars Avatar
David Bassett
Nashville, Tennessee, USA   usa
1970 Triumph Spitfire MkIII "Tamara's Turd"
1974 MG Midget MkIII "Lizzy"
In reply to # 2030271 by prop46 Congratz.... Your wearing my shoes, sorry for the smell....lol

When i built mine, i had the exact same problem, and messed with it for like, months trying everything

Solution....

""" 1342 on the dissy is not the same as 1342 at the plugs """....Duh !!!

This finally took me out of "wishing" mode into full-on "beaming" mode. The car had sat since October and started and idled fine. But no way to drive her with a fetching backfire that scared the neighbors. The firing order was the last thing I checked because the previous owner had supposedly had the engine "professionally rebuilt" and reinstalled. On the first sunny day in March I decided to try swapping my plug wires 180 degrees different at the dizzy and BOOM! Ran like a champ, drove even better. I now joyously drive my car for days and come up with excuses to go on errands for the GF. Now that she is driving it, we both are true Midget lovers.
prop46 Avatar
Prop Black Hole Midget
Missouri, USA   usa
Congrats chris....very cool

That valve cover is notorious for rubbing agianst the the valve train.... I have hi lift roller rockers and i had to grind the jesus out of the inside of my valve cover to get it to quite down

Prop

73midget Avatar
Chris Edwards
Texas, USA   usa
Checked with closer to home advisors who think the engine sounds fine for being started the firt time and barely in tune. Today i set the dynamic timing (had to repair my timing light) and tuned the carbs with my Gunson Colortune (first time using that tool) The carbs were much richer than they needed to be... Took it for a first shake down cruise (varying speed and revs)... not a long haul but enough to figure out what i want to fix before i take it on longer break in runs.

1. I need to adjust the clutch, i have the rivergate adjustable clutch slave cylinder and i would be happier if the pushrod were just a little longer, (expected to adjust that since it's a new pressure plate of a different brand)
2. using the colortune the carbs are JUST a hair too lean when driving, so I'll richen them up a flat or two and test it again,

after a longer run I will do a compression check and see if i can tell how the rings are seating/ set a baseline for the newly rebuilt engine.

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