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UPDATED: Starting my rebuilt engine... SUCCESS!!

Posted by 73midget

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UPDATED: Starting my rebuilt engine... SUCCESS!! #1
73midget Chris Edwards Texas, USA 1973 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: April 02, 2012 10:14PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,011

So i got up the courage to try and start my rebuilt motor... IT's so close, but not quite there yet. I checked the fluids, charged the battery, and turned it over without plugs for a few seconds at a time until the oil pressure built up. then rechecked it,put the plugs in and tried to start it. I have spark on all 4 wires, plugs are wet so i know the fuel is getting into the cylinders, but it's just not starting. Any pointers?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 12:32AM by 73midget.

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #2
refisk Rick Fisk Frankenmuth, Michigan, USA 1959 Austin-Healey Sprite 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite 1979 MG Midget 1500 "Party Midget"	Posted: April 02, 2012 10:16PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 2,239

Sounds like the ignition timing is off.

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #3
73midget Chris Edwards Texas, USA 1973 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: April 02, 2012 11:22PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,011

thats what i thought, but the question is how do i get it timed so it will start?

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #4
Bob Braley Robert Braley Tacoma, USA 1975 MG Midget 1500	Posted: April 03, 2012 02:02AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 157

Chris, for starters, did you rebuild the engine or have someone rebuild it and did it include a new camshaft (a new camshaft will require a special 2500 RPM for 15 minutes on first engine start-up>? Have you static timed the engine making sure you were at TDC on "compression stroke" #1 cylinder when you installed the distributor and set the static timing. Check the compression and set the lifters following the book steps for doing so. You said you put oil in, but did you put a pint of engine break-in fluid in the oil? In short, give me some more information and I will try to help you.

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #5
kirks-auto robert kirk Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA	Posted: April 03, 2012 02:39AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 13,091

If it is simple, someone on the starter with you under the bonnet....move the dizzy fore and aft until it finds the spot where it will start...this assumes you are getting any indication it even wants to start.

If you have no indication of an occasional "hit"....as per Mr Braley, you probably have the dizzy 180 out of time.

Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #6
73midget Chris Edwards Texas, USA 1973 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: April 03, 2012 09:55AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,011

I rebuilt it. (not sure why this matters). yes it has a new cam shaft that will require running in on first start up (hence the need to get it to start). I have it static timed to TDC. I will double check that. I suppose it is possible that i put the drive for the distributor in backwards, but I don't think so. When i assembled the engine i had it at TDC on cylinder one and checked that the rotor pointed to number one when i put the drive in. I did this AFTER i set up the timing chain, but before the head went on, so i couldn't verify the valve position... the timing chain is set up based on the intake valve on cylinder 1 according to the instructions that came with it.

After failing to start last night i put the engine back in this position (cylinder 1 at TDC, rotor pointed to #1 wire)

So I will take off the valve cover and make sure both cylinder 1 valves are closed, right? if they are then I am on the compression stroke, if not then i got confused on assembly and put the dissy drive in 180 out. If i remember rightly i can pull the drive out with a 3/8" threaded rod? turn it and reinsert it.

IS setting it to fire at TDC close enough to make it start? (my reading indicates it should be...) I only have one timing mark for TDC so i cannot accurately set it to x degrees before. when looking at the distributor am i right that turning it to the right is more advanced and to the left more retarded?

I won't get a chance to work on it till Friday so lots of time to puzzle.

Thanks!

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #7
prop46 Prop Black Hole Midget Missouri, USA	Posted: April 03, 2012 11:23AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,582

Congratz.... Your wearing my shoes, sorry for the smell....lol

When i built mine, i had the exact same problem, and messed with it for like, months trying everything

Solution....

""" 1342 on the dissy is not the same as 1342 at the plugs """....Duh !!!

Hahaha.... Thats still hard to admit

Thats why its so important to have a 2 nd set of fresh eyes, whats funny, i truely belived my firing order was correct and could not be talked off of it

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2012 11:25AM by prop46.

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #8
prop46 Prop Black Hole Midget Missouri, USA	Posted: April 03, 2012 11:33AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,582

Btw... If your set up correctly, static timing on these engines is fairly broad...mine will fire with from a 1/4 before straight up on the left to layed all the way over to the right

The reasone for static im guessing is to keep the engine from starting over advanced and wreacking the engine right off the key

Ive got the SW 05 swiftune camshaft

Prop

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #9
AmishIndy Seth Jones Wheaton, IL, USA 1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire" 2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"	Posted: April 03, 2012 11:44AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 3,069

In reply to # 2030279 by prop46 Ive got the SW 05 swiftune camshaft

I've got the SW 5-07. Didnt know others on the forum used them.

Seth Jones

1971 MG Midget

www.SpridgetGuru.com

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #10
theleisure sean m Yinzburgh, PA, USA 1966 Austin-Healey Sprite 1967 MG MGB GT	Posted: April 03, 2012 06:58PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 564

Just a quick reminder that there's a notch on the pulley that you need to find. If you're going by a nice big dimple that's been machined into the front of the pulley then something's wrong.

Yep, I did that. It just seemed so obvious at the time...

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #11
73midget Chris Edwards Texas, USA 1973 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: April 03, 2012 07:35PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,011

Thanks, you're right many people get confused by the dimple on the original pulley's. But I have a brand new one that has no dimple. The notch is one I made with a file to line up with the pointer added on top (not below) the wheel

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #12
73midget Chris Edwards Texas, USA 1973 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: April 04, 2012 12:13AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,011

YES! it was 180 out, which makes sense since i put the drive in with the head off... i set up the cam timing with is set by the intake stroke... DUH, the distributor drive should be timed to the COMPRESSION stroke. much easier to tell when that is by the valve positions.

ANYWAY, i pulled it out and turned the engine around by pushing the car in gear until the TDC mark was aligned and the first two valves were closed, and reinstalled it. Plugs in, and she fired right up. ran so smoothly even with the tuning not perfectly on. I'm just beaming.

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #13
kirks-auto robert kirk Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA	Posted: April 04, 2012 07:53AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 13,091

Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

How to advertise on this website

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Re: UPDATED: Starting my rebuilt engine... SUCCESS!! #14
73midget Chris Edwards Texas, USA 1973 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: April 04, 2012 01:15PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,011

ok... may regret posting this. Please excuse my "narration"... it's a little silly. also i filmed this with my phone in one hand, so it's a little shakey

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 01:16PM by 73midget.

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Re: UPDATED: Starting my rebuilt engine... SUCCESS!! #15
kirks-auto robert kirk Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA	Posted: April 04, 2012 01:48PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 13,091

Good on your Chris!

I just hope that was me sitting so far away from your garage but it sure sounded like a recurring miss....not meaning to rain on your parade...but it sorta sounded like a complete dead hole.

Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
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Re: UPDATED: Starting my rebuilt engine... SUCCESS!! #16
73midget Chris Edwards Texas, USA 1973 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: April 04, 2012 01:56PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,011

oh goody, something else to work on. I'll double check that all 4 plugs are firing, hopefully nothing serious. Felt good about it for 14 hours, had to come down sometime.

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Re: UPDATED: Starting my rebuilt engine... SUCCESS!! #17
kirks-auto robert kirk Davenport, Iowa, Rock Island, Illinois, Clearwater, USA	Posted: April 04, 2012 02:03PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 13,091

Chris, I sincerely hope I am wrong and others may chime in. But a 4 banger missing is pretty noticeable and a 4 banger running on only 3 more so. The plugs should be the tell and I hope it is something simple.

Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #18
littlecars David Bassett Nashville, Tennessee, USA 1970 Triumph Spitfire MkIII "Tamara's Turd" 1974 MG Midget MkIII "Lizzy"	Posted: April 04, 2012 02:29PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 810

In reply to # 2030271 by prop46 Congratz.... Your wearing my shoes, sorry for the smell....lol

When i built mine, i had the exact same problem, and messed with it for like, months trying everything

Solution....

""" 1342 on the dissy is not the same as 1342 at the plugs """....Duh !!!

This finally took me out of "wishing" mode into full-on "beaming" mode. The car had sat since October and started and idled fine. But no way to drive her with a fetching backfire that scared the neighbors. The firing order was the last thing I checked because the previous owner had supposedly had the engine "professionally rebuilt" and reinstalled. On the first sunny day in March I decided to try swapping my plug wires 180 degrees different at the dizzy and BOOM! Ran like a champ, drove even better. I now joyously drive my car for days and come up with excuses to go on errands for the GF. Now that she is driving it, we both are true Midget lovers.

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Re: starting my rebuilt engine... or trying to. #19
prop46 Prop Black Hole Midget Missouri, USA	Posted: April 04, 2012 04:35PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,582

Congrats chris....very cool

That valve cover is notorious for rubbing agianst the the valve train.... I have hi lift roller rockers and i had to grind the jesus out of the inside of my valve cover to get it to quite down

Prop

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Re: UPDATED: Starting my rebuilt engine... SUCCESS!! #20
73midget Chris Edwards Texas, USA 1973 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: April 07, 2012 01:47PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,011

Checked with closer to home advisors who think the engine sounds fine for being started the firt time and barely in tune. Today i set the dynamic timing (had to repair my timing light) and tuned the carbs with my Gunson Colortune (first time using that tool) The carbs were much richer than they needed to be... Took it for a first shake down cruise (varying speed and revs)... not a long haul but enough to figure out what i want to fix before i take it on longer break in runs.

1. I need to adjust the clutch, i have the rivergate adjustable clutch slave cylinder and i would be happier if the pushrod were just a little longer, (expected to adjust that since it's a new pressure plate of a different brand)
2. using the colortune the carbs are JUST a hair too lean when driving, so I'll richen them up a flat or two and test it again,

after a longer run I will do a compression check and see if i can tell how the rings are seating/ set a baseline for the newly rebuilt engine.

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