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A little help please

Posted by Mgkj

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A little help please #1
Mgkj Kenneth Miller Kansas, USA	Posted: March 15, 2012 02:17PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 53

So i finally got the brake master cylinder replaced, also i bled all the brakes. Only problem is i still dont have any brakes. The pedal has way to much give and theres barely even enough brakes to stop it rolling down an slight incline in my driveway. I took it for a test drive around the cul de sac and when trying to stop, i can feel the brakes chattering when i press the pedal to the floor and hold it there, but its not stopping at all. Any suggestions?

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Re: A little help please #2
AmishIndy Seth Jones Wheaton, IL, USA 1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire" 2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"	Posted: March 15, 2012 02:22PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 3,139

In reply to # 2012429 by Mgkj So i finally got the brake master cylinder replaced, also i bled all the brakes. Only problem is i still dont have any brakes. The pedal has way to much give and theres barely even enough brakes to stop it rolling down an slight incline in my driveway.

Sounds to me like there is still air in the line. Did you bleed it untill there were nomore air bubbles comming out? Is there enough brake fluid in the resevoir? Did you also adjust he rear brakes and handbrake just to be sure?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2012 02:22PM by AmishIndy.

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Re: A little help please #3
Mgkj Kenneth Miller Kansas, USA	Posted: March 15, 2012 02:25PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 53

IM pretty sure i got all the air out. when i was all done with each wheel the fluid was squirting out in a solid stream about 6 or more inches. the fluid in the resevoir is full. I did not adjust the rear breaks, do you need any special tools to do so?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2012 02:34PM by Mgkj.

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Re: A little help please #4
AmishIndy Seth Jones Wheaton, IL, USA 1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire" 2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"	Posted: March 15, 2012 02:42PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 3,139

From the bentley manual

Later cars
(17) Block both front wheels, fully release the hand brake, and jack up the car until the wheel is free to rotate.
(18) Turn the adjuster, located on the back of the brake backplate, in a clockwise direction until the shoes lock the brake-drum.
(19) Turn the adjuster back just sufficiently for the wheel to rotate without the brake-shoes rubbing.
(20) Repeat the operations in (17) to (19) for the other rear brake.

Hand brake
(21) Adjust the rear brake-shoes as detailed in (17) to (20) (later cars).
(22) Block both front wheels and jack up the rear of the car.
(23) Apply the hand brake so that the pawl engages with the third notch on the ratchet.
(24) Adjust the hand brake cable, with the sleeve nut (Fig. M4), until it is just possible to rotate each wheel by heavy hand pressure. Both wheels must offer equal resistance in order to get full braking power.
(25) Release the hand brake and check that both wheels rotate freely.

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Re: A little help please #5
Mgkj Kenneth Miller Kansas, USA	Posted: March 15, 2012 03:08PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 53

Thanks alot. Will do!

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Re: A little help please #6
AmishIndy Seth Jones Wheaton, IL, USA 1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire" 2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"	Posted: March 15, 2012 03:25PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 3,139

What that should accomplish is at the very least give you working rear brakes and a working E brake (thus making driving the car a lot safer since its better to have a working ebrake than no brakes at all). While you're back ther emay as well giv ethe grease nipple on the handbrake cable a few squirts of grease with a grease gun.

The manual indicates that "Excessive travel of the brake pedal is an indication that the brake-shoes require adjusting." so adjusting the rear brakes may be enough to fix the problem. Still check for leaks everywhere, and check the condition of the three brake hoses. One thing that can happen is a leaky oil seal in the rear hub so feel the bottom of the drum brake backplate for oil.

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Re: A little help please #7
refisk Rick Fisk Frankenmuth, Michigan, USA 1959 Austin-Healey Sprite 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite 1979 MG Midget 1500 "Party Midget"	Posted: March 15, 2012 03:30PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 2,366

You may have all the air bled out and still not have effective brakes if they're not adjusted properly - especially on cars with 4 wheel drum brakes. On a car with single circuit brakes and discs in front you may not have any brakes if the rears aren't adjusted properly.

What year is your car?

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Re: A little help please #8
AmishIndy Seth Jones Wheaton, IL, USA 1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire" 2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"	Posted: March 15, 2012 03:33PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 3,139

In reply to # 2012507 by refisk You may have all the air bled out and still not have effective brakes if they're not adjusted properly - especially on cars with 4 wheel drum brakes. On a car with single circuit brakes and discs in front you may not have any brakes if the rears aren't adjusted properly.

What year is your car?

He has a MKII

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Re: A little help please #9
prop46 Prop Black Hole Midget Missouri, USA	Posted: March 15, 2012 03:48PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,582

My guess is you didnt bench bleed the new Master cly....common mistake

With it in the car... Dis connect the pipes and fill the resivore and pump the pedal a few times and get the fluid flowing...hook up yhen pipes and rebleed

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Re: A little help please #10
Mgkj Kenneth Miller Kansas, USA	Posted: March 15, 2012 05:17PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 53

You're right. I did not bench bleed it. I will try that and adjusting the rear brakes when I get a chance.

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Re: A little help please #11
Jonathan E. Iowa, USA 1979 MG Midget 1500 "The Midget"	Posted: March 16, 2012 08:32PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 118

I'm in the middle of brakes work too, and i haven't take the air out of the rear because I need a wheel cylinder, but yesterday I took my MG for a little test drive for the first time and all I have is the fornt brakes and the same problem happen... but i'm sure once I bleed the rear it will work... because front brakes do the less work than rear brakes.

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Re: A little help please #12
refisk Rick Fisk Frankenmuth, Michigan, USA 1959 Austin-Healey Sprite 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite 1979 MG Midget 1500 "Party Midget"	Posted: March 16, 2012 08:50PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 2,366

It's actually they other way around Jonathon. The front brakes on a typical vehicle provide at least 70% of the braking ability.

Rick

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Re: A little help please #13
9146 rick dentel yardley, pa, USA 1970 Porsche 914 1978 MG MGB 2002 Mini Cooper	Posted: March 16, 2012 08:51PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,454

No the brakes have more bias to the front. The fronts are self adjusting and the rears are not hence they need to be properly adjusted.

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Re: A little help please #14
prop46 Prop Black Hole Midget Missouri, USA	Posted: March 16, 2012 08:55PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,582

Actaully the bias on a midget favors the front about 55 ; 45

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Re: A little help please #15
Jonathan E. Iowa, USA 1979 MG Midget 1500 "The Midget"	Posted: March 16, 2012 11:45PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 118

Ohhh sounds like I didn't pay attention to my auto teacher eye popping smiley

... all I know is the front brakes have better cooling system.... but anyway guys sorry I made my math and sounds like you guys are right... Than I have a brake problem..... but mine still brakes, not a the speed I want but still stops at some point...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2012 11:48PM by Jonathan E..

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Re: A little help please #16
prop46 Prop Black Hole Midget Missouri, USA	Posted: March 17, 2012 01:02PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,582

Jonathian,

Dont sweat it, the brake systems on these cars suck...i get better braking with an old pair of work boots

I thur in the towel and went with a tilton master cly set up and stainless steel hoses and will eventually be doing a big brake conversion

The main issue i find, is im spoiled by modern brakes that actually work... So others will have a differant opinion on braking

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Re: A little help please #17
dlrhine Dave Rhine South, Carolina, USA 1978 MG Midget	Posted: March 17, 2012 04:37PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 3,389

In reply to # 2014340 by prop46
I'm with you Prop. These brakes may have been great back in the day, but this ain't that day. I've completely redone mine with all new parts, but they're still scary at times...

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it 'til it is! winking smiley

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Re: A little help please #18
ppeteo Pete Ottewell Staffordshire, United Kingdom 1972 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: March 18, 2012 12:32PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 68

In reply to # 2012442 by Mgkj IM pretty sure i got all the air out. when i was all done with each wheel the fluid was squirting out in a solid stream about 6 or more inches. the fluid in the resevoir is full. I did not adjust the rear breaks, do you need any special tools to do so?

Kenneth, did you bleed the breaks properly. You should have a clear plastic tube attached to the bleed nipple and place the end in a glass jar with about an inch of brake fluid in it making sure that the end of the tube is below the level of the fluid in the jar. This will aid in determining if there is any air bubbles in the fluid being bled off and will act as a trap to prevent air seeping back into the system.

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Re: A little help please #19
mjamgb michael anderson NORTHERN NEVADA, USA 1954 MG Magnette ZA 1967 MG MGB 1973 MG MGB 1974 MG Midget	Posted: March 21, 2012 04:23PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 6,403

I doubt very much you need to bench bleed your MC since you got fluid at all the corners.

Adjust the rear shoes and if that doesn't help try a re-bleed witha piece of tubing and a jar as described by Pete.

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