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rust attack progress pics!

Posted by pants007

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #141
pants007 stevyn knox isle of man, United Kingdom	Posted: May 02, 2012 12:06PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 620

hey paul! i think your right! the whole car is 3 layers! that po was one lazy f***er! pardon the french! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #142
purpleGT Bud Osbourne Pittsburgh, PA., USA 1974 MG MGB GT "The Grape" 1977 MG MGB	Posted: May 02, 2012 12:30PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 2,208

Normally, I'd never see a Spridget that would require a complete heelboard replacement. Just some inserts at the outboard ends would do it. But, your car seems to defy "normal" at every turn!
One of my concerns, with your car, is the loss of the original inner sill positions, when the DPO replaced them. If there were any original inner sill segments left, at the ends (front & rear), even if rusty, they could be used as a guide when installing toeboard and heelboard inserts. This would then give you something reliable (position-wise) to weld the new inner sills to.
From what I've had time to read, since I've been home from the vintage races, Peter has you headed in the right direction. Of course, you are going to need to do something so that you have a reliable (perfectly flat & level) shop floor from which to do alignment measurements from. I suppose that, if you are creative enough, you could contrive an "artificial", "floating" floor from which to take those critical measurements from. And, no, I've never had to do one of those for a car, so you are on your own, there. winking smiley

However you decide to proceed, be sure to think each step through very carefully, and keep thinking several steps ahead, so that you can anticipate troublesome places and "dead-ends" in time to change your plan to suit.

At least you now have mostly clean steel to work with and you can see things very well. And BTW, I agree with what Paul says about why there seems to be three layers at the base of that heelboard.

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #143
pants007 stevyn knox isle of man, United Kingdom	Posted: May 02, 2012 02:23PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 620

Hey bud good to have you back! im hoping i can just do the outboard sections of the heel board, but this car loves throwing me a curve ball! starting to wish i never started! anyway just trying to get my head around where to start?

so this is the plan i think!

1) inner bulk/heel board removed so i can see whats lurking behind and see if i can remove the old floor edge, weld back in leaving outer edges unattached.

oh while its off look at outer sections off outer bulk/toe boards plus arches!

2) do my alignment on the floor checking for twist

3) complete bracing (thats been the most enjoyable bit of this project)

4) get it on the rotissere (not chicken)

5) sills, a-posts, rear wing patches, front inner arches, radiator brackets.

6) paint!!!

EASY!!!

thanks guys!

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #144
scoutll Bryan Durham North Dakota, USA 1965 Chrysler 300 ""Annie""	Posted: May 02, 2012 03:05PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 2,747

In reply to # 2056666 by pants007 1) inner bulk/heel board removed so i can see whats lurking behind and see if i can remove the old floor edge, weld back in leaving outer edges unattached.

oh while its off look at outer sections off outer bulk/toe boards plus arches!

2) do my alignment on the floor checking for twist

3) complete bracing (thats been the most enjoyable bit of this project)

4) get it on the rotissere (not chicken)

5) sills, a-posts, rear wing patches, front inner arches, radiator brackets.

6) paint!!!

EASY!!!

thanks guys!

You forgot.....

7) Put together......

8) DRIVE!!!!

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #145
purpleGT Bud Osbourne Pittsburgh, PA., USA 1974 MG MGB GT "The Grape" 1977 MG MGB	Posted: May 02, 2012 03:20PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 2,208

Stevyn,
I think I'd keep it on the floor, rather than on a rotisserie, during the fitting & installation of heel board repairs, toeboard repairs, sill installation, etc. Then, once all of the structural members are fitted and partially welded in place and the unibody is rigid, once again, go ahead and put it on the rotisserie so that you can position it for the best welding access on everything.
You can seriously warp a unibody, on a rotisserie, even with good bracing in place. Also, with it sitting on stands, it will be easy to re-check the alignment after each step. Better to catch & correct any unwanted mis-alignment right away, than to discover it when everything is fully welded into position.

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #146
pants007 stevyn knox isle of man, United Kingdom	Posted: May 03, 2012 03:31AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 620

ah! good advice bud thanks! again thanks for everyones help, i feel i should be paying you lot!

do i need to support the rear end when i start drilling out the spotwelds of the inner rear bulkhead?

or should i just do repair sections on both sides?

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #147
purpleGT Bud Osbourne Pittsburgh, PA., USA 1974 MG MGB GT "The Grape" 1977 MG MGB	Posted: May 03, 2012 05:38AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 2,208

If you are replacing the entire heelboard structure, then, yes, you do need to support the rear of the car. Same thing applaies if you do repair sections on both sides. Remember, triangulate the bracing as much as possible and avoid parallelograms, since they are not rigid.

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #148
Kerr Norm Kerr Ann Arbor, Mi, USA 1974 MG Midget	Posted: May 03, 2012 05:59AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 2,463

is this a '72?

(dude, please update your profile, I had to search your previous threads to figure out what year this body is)

Here is my question: at this point, it is clear that you will have to replace almost all of the structure of this car. Unless you are a master body man with unlimited spare time, why not buy a heritage shell instead? With the amount of rust and bodged repairs on your shell I am beginning to wonder if it might not be the cheaper alternative....

The reason why I wanted to know the year of your car first was because a bugeye would maybe warrant restoration regardless of cost / time involved, but a later year with readily available new shells is another story. Add to this the risk of removing so much structure from yours and then getting it all square again when you are done, and that is another point in favor of starting with a new one instead of digging such a deep hole with this one.

Norm

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #149
NOHOME Peter Plouf London, Canada 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite Bugeye "Lil" 1967 MG MGB GT "Maggie (GT From Hell)"	Posted: May 03, 2012 09:12AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 11,892

Little inspiration for those who doubt. Before was starting to look a bit soft in my opinion. Time and tape measure ensure that all comes out OK.

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #150
NOHOME Peter Plouf London, Canada 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite Bugeye "Lil" 1967 MG MGB GT "Maggie (GT From Hell)"	Posted: May 03, 2012 09:28AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 11,892

Here is what you have to drill out from the backside to remove the heelboard. The truth is that there is not a lot of opportunity for error since it will only fit in the hole the same way as the old one came out. If you WERE to put a twist in the car with the old heelboard removed, the new heelboard would let you know by not fitting in as expected. Note that the shock mount panels have a notch on the heelboard flange that mates to the heelboard beadng. Also, before doing any welding, the shocks and springs should be mounted to make sure it all fits. Misalignment will be obvious.

If I were doing this again, I would leave most of the floor in place except a strip at the back. This would ensure against the cabin becoming a parallelogram. Also, regadless of if you have a perfectly flat surface or not, if you use the exact same reference points on the floor and car, and they do not move in relation to each other, then you shoul be good to go.

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #151
pants007 stevyn knox isle of man, United Kingdom	Posted: May 03, 2012 10:00AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 620

hey norm! yes its a 72! a new shell would be great but not at £6000 i have got all the panels cheap for around £400, so just need my own time. if i take my time, i have lots of that; everything will be ok. i dont want a show winner but this is the possition im in so just have to get on with it!

Bud are you saying i need to brace the car before starting work on the inner and outer bulkhead or just support rear end with jacks and wood? i cant use the suss holes in the floor as there part of the panal thats coming out?

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #152
purpleGT Bud Osbourne Pittsburgh, PA., USA 1974 MG MGB GT "The Grape" 1977 MG MGB	Posted: May 03, 2012 11:35AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 2,208

In reply to # 2057354 by pants007 hey norm! yes its a 72! a new shell would be great but not at £6000 i have got all the panels cheap for around £400, so just need my own time. if i take my time, i have lots of that; everything will be ok. i dont want a show winner but this is the possition im in so just have to get on with it!

Bud are you saying i need to brace the car before starting work on the inner and outer bulkhead or just support rear end with jacks and wood? i cant use the suss holes in the floor as there part of the panal thats coming out?

You could either support the rear end with jacks, or go "overhead" with the bracing (kind of like a roll cage structure, in a race car), to support the rear.

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #153
pants007 stevyn knox isle of man, United Kingdom	Posted: May 11, 2012 06:27AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 620

Hey guys! just started cutting a small section of my inner rear bulkhead just to see whats behind! condition of outer bulkhead.
just to get my head round how it all fits together (see diagram) is that right?

1) i weld the inner and outer bulkhead together

2) i weld the trunk floor assembly to the flange of the inner bulkhead

heres a pic so far! im still worried about my innersill on right side, it leans out and when i come to replace it how will i get the bodywork shifted enough so it all fits?

Can i double check some measurements again? i have some on the thread but just want to make sure!

inner sill to inner sill across from the rear of door openings, also the 2 floor supports where the car jacks up? think they shouls be 18.5 inches! do i measure from tunnel to inner sill or from the bottom of the car?

cheers!

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #154
pants007 stevyn knox isle of man, United Kingdom	Posted: May 11, 2012 06:29AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 620

1 more showing sill lean! the pic make the lean out look worse than it is!

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #155
purpleGT Bud Osbourne Pittsburgh, PA., USA 1974 MG MGB GT "The Grape" 1977 MG MGB	Posted: May 11, 2012 07:01AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 2,208

Stevyn,
The angle at which the inner sill sits will be controlled by the flange on the outboard end of the heelboard (on the cockpit side of the heelboard assembly).
The length of the cross member, which houses jacking tubes, should be checked from tunnel to outboard flanges. Hopefully, the original flanges, on that cross member, are still intact and un-molested by the DPO, as they will be very helpful in correctly positioning the inner sills.
As far as body exterior panels having to realign, to conform to the newly corrected position of the sills: yes, they will, but it'll be easier than you think......I think winking smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2012 07:05AM by purpleGT.

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #156
pgmidget Paul Glogowski North East PA, USA 1966 MG Midget 1972 MG Midget	Posted: May 11, 2012 08:23AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 171

Stevyn,

2X What Bud said. As I was the first person to do sill and floor work on my 72, the cross member jacking tube and flanges were in tact , as was the rear ancore point. This made it much less painfull then what you are going through. The top of the inner sill at the B pillar looks to be correct, if your floor was somehow shortened that could bring the bottom of that sill closer to the tunnel, however the floor should have been located by the rear spring cutout and bolt holes and also off the front cross member.. If you would like some dimensions just ask or shoot me a PM with the details. However there is no guarantee that mine are 100%. But I think they should be pretty close.

Paul

My Midget Pictures

"It's never easy"..."but for a minute I thought it might be"

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #157
NOHOME Peter Plouf London, Canada 1961 Austin-Healey Sprite Bugeye "Lil" 1967 MG MGB GT "Maggie (GT From Hell)"	Posted: May 11, 2012 09:39PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 11,892

Have a look at the pic I posted above. The edge of the rear bulkhead above the vicegrip mates to the inner sill. The sill has a 90 degree flange that mates with the edge of the bulkhead. If matched, the inner sill will be straight.

Have to wonder what is up with the angle you show? confused smiley

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #158
pants007 stevyn knox isle of man, United Kingdom	Posted: May 12, 2012 01:55AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 620

yep see that peter! just wanted to confirm how the tops welded together just in case the po had bodged anything there! and yes that sill is strange, i may need to release some of those awful patches as i think he has welded it without aligning anything. anyway i need to cut out and fix the rear wing front and back with repair panels so should be able to sort it out!

Starting to enjoy the problem solving on this car! i feel like columbo, theres always one more question! i'll look back through the thread to try and find those measurements.

thanks guys..

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #159
hoggie Mike Hogan Oklahoma City, USA 1969 MG Midget MkIII	Posted: May 13, 2012 08:42AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 439

In reply to # 2065206 by NOHOME Have a look at the pic I posted above. The edge of the rear bulkhead above the vicegrip mates to the inner sill. The sill has a 90 degree flange that mates with the edge of the bulkhead. If matched, the inner sill will be straight.

Have to wonder what is up with the angle you show? confused smiley

Is that just an illusion from the angle the picture was taken? That angle between the floor and the sill doesn't look like a right angle.

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Re: rust attack progress pics! #160
pants007 stevyn knox isle of man, United Kingdom	Posted: May 13, 2012 09:55AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 620

no illusion mike the whole inner sill leans out, although the pic does make it look worse!

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