Hey guys! could someone please post a pic of the outer toe board in the footwell? just want to see how it fits in? does it fit on the outside or inside thethe top edge? heres a pic of mine fitted see top edge is outside the footwell. its really warped and is flexing in and out everytime i touch it, am thinking of taking it out buying or making one.


thanks

Stevyn,
It is supposed to be spot-welded to the inboard side of the surrounding flanges, and the lower edge is "stepped", for correct alignment with the inner sill. This becomes critical in getting the overall width of the inner sill/footwell side/A post/outer sill total width & alignment correct. That footwell side is only 20 gauge, but it can sure cause headaches for you if that stepped, lower edge isn't present.
I can get you a good picture later on, this morning & post it to this thread.

Here is an image of the outside side panel on 69 Midget

Outside foot well side panel

Well, I can't improve on that one, Mike. Thanks for posting.

Stevyn, you may also want to take a look at the toe board area of your Midget. It seems like I recall the lower part of the outer (forward), vertical panel, as well as the floor section which encloses/boxes it in, on the bottom, being missing. This box section forms a rigid cross-member, which ties the forward ends of the sills in with the unibody structure, so it's a critical piece. It's also a commonly rusted area and not too difficult to replace. I think I either posted photos of a repair of this section, on my '73, or I have photos to post.

hey guys mine is not stepped! it looks like its sitting behind the inner sill? as you can see in the pic! also i just did my first weld you can see in the pic! does that outer board run the full length up to the door opening?

Yeah, it needs to be stepped, for proper alignment. And, yes, it extends clear back to the door opening.

Re: welding. It's very important to do a lot of practice welding on scrap pieces, before doing anything on the car (looks like you could use a lot more arc voltage, to get better penetration, if I'm seeing the right weld). It's not a skill you will learn quickly. It takes time and patience & practice to reach an acceptable level of profficiency, but you'll get there.
Until you have that footwell panel issue dealt with, there's really not much point in trying to fit & weld anything having to do with the A post or sills.
You can tack-weld some bracing, to tie-in the fascia/cowel with the cross member, which will maintain the alignment of those pieces, while you have that footwell side panel out. There are a lot of spot welds to drill, to separate the footwell panel from the A post. Yes, you could butt-splicee the new footwell panel to the remaining, original section, but I'd bring a leg of the new panel in, horizontally, above where that crude horizontal splice was made by the DPO. Avoid lap joints anywhere but where the factory employed them.

i had it on the lowest amp setting i think its 28/30 amps! the metal i am welding to is almost see-through its that thin, on my practice piece penetration was good but i blew a hole every time i arked! I think im going to cut the lot out and start again, as i have the a-post off anyway. i was planning on sorting the end toe board out as it seems to be double skinned and a mess! how dose that join the inner and outer toe board? thats the back of the weld by the way and its ground off!

I cant see how the outer toe is welded to the inner-sill? when i start cutting the sills may have to come off.

where is the best place to brace? and what should i use? is is better to better to get the car on axel stands or a rotisserie?

Here is a pic of the inside view of an original outer foot well panel for comparison.

inside view of outer foot well panel

thanks mike! yeah i see the step. looks very neat! right thats my mind made up its going to have to come off and maybe the sills. so on your pic it looks like the balkhead/firewall flanges spot weld to the inside of the outer panel?

Whats going to be my best plan or attack? Should i brace the car incase i need to take the sills off or just just support the top cowel with some wood to floor while i cut the panel out?

or do i need to start with the firewall and work back? i need to replace the outer flange of the inner wing which is rotten and welded wrong i think!

1st pic flange with holes, i bought a new flange but think it maybe worth while buying a full top inner sill.

2nd pic another patch work quilt! this car is like a 3D jigsaw

Stevyn,
Mike has been sending some excellent photos and, yes, you are correct in your assessment of the orientation of the various flanges spot welded to the footwell panel, as viewed from inside the footwell.

On your car, I would certainly brace everything by welding. Glad you asked that, as I need an excuse to visit a fellow club member's garage and photograph the bracing I made for my '73 (the white one in many of the pics I've posted), which I've loaned to him for use in his '72 and which he doesn't know that the club is putting together a "body restoration strike force" that's soon to descend on his car to get it back on track (and complete all metal work) . The good thing about the bracing I made up is that it is entirely "bolt-in".

In the case of your car, I would start with (after bracing) removing the outer sill. After it is out of the way, you can assess the condition of the inner sill and determine whether or not replacement is warranted.
With the sills, A posts, B posts and floors replaced/repaired, I think the next step will be tackling that awful mess the DPO made of the car's toe boards (at least the right side). You'll want to find and study the factory parts diagram, to get a better idea of what should be there and how it all goes together. The flat panels are easy enough to fabricate at home, with attachment flanges hand formed by clamping the panel between a pair of 4" x 4" x 1/4" x approximately 2' angles, and simply folding the flat sheet 90 degrees or whatever angle is called for, with a body hammer (never strike sheet metal with a ball peen hammer).
You can probably make up some patch panels to insert (butt joints) into the front inner fender. Or, you can just replace the entire assembly.
I see from the second photo that you've got some poorly made/installed repair patches on the frame rail. Those will have to come off and new sections, cut from a new or donor panel, inserted for a proper, durable repair.
But, on to the sills, for now. I'll try to get those bracing pictures taken and posted by this evening, although I may push it back 'til Tuesday night, when I have to be in that part of the region for a Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix meeting.

As always bud thanks, and im in no rush! think i will replace the side pan all together, it has 3 skins as far i can see between the holes where the wing bolts. i have 8 pieces of sheet 24x24 so should be big enough to fab anything, and have a machine at work that can flange and bend. i think bracing will be more differcult for me as i dont have any door hinges to bolt to!

oh whats best to fab panels? just a big piece of thin card as a template?

The only panels I would fabricate would be the toe board inserts. They're nice, flat sheets, with simple flanges. The sills, footwell sides, etc. have some subtle and not at all subtle shapes to them and the Heritage panels are VERY fairly priced, last time I checked. The floors are also pretty sophisticated stampings, although you can fabricate repair panels for them, if the rusted areas aren't too large & don't encompass any of the more complicated shapes.
And, yes, I use poster board/heavy card stock to make my templates.

As far as the cockpit bracing goes, you'll want to stay away from the door hinge mounts, because you will need good access to them for trial-fitting the doors. Basically, I use 1" x .125"(wall thickness) square tubing, combined with 2" x 2" x 1/8" angle. The angles are for the mounting flanges. I bolt the bracing to the windshield bolt holes, the convertible top mounts (captive nuts) and the spring mount at the base of the heel board. Then, I make up some cross-bracing and diagonal bracing out of the same material. You'll LOVE welding on this stuff! Just turn the machine up and burn it in for some real strong welds. It kinda spoils you for welding on the light stuff
I couldn't reach the guy with my bracing, today. I should be able to get in touch with him tomorrow, however, so I'll still get some good photos of the bracing for you.

Do i brace the whole car? or just 1 side? also if i bolt to the windshield holes i assume i would also need support from floor to top cowel as it looks like the side pan is spot welded to the shield fix holes?

oh yeah i wont be fab large panels i just meant repair patches, i need to walk before i can run!

And whats best to support the car on? wood, axel stands or rotisseire?

Yes, brace the whole car. You can drop a simple angle brace from the bracing triangle to the top of the cross member and that should be all you need at that point. It can be tack-welded in place, of course, which should be plenty strong for what it will be called upon to do.

I'll have to take another look at the w/s mounting bolt holes. Since that's always still very solid, I've never had to get into it and I'm reasonably sure the footwell side panel does not include those holes (doesn't come up that far).

For most of what you are going to be doing, axle stands will be fine. However, a rotisserie will be very helpful in positioning some of the more difficult welding to a "downhand" position. I fabbed my rotisserie from cheap ($39.95), Harbor Freight engine stands and scrap, rectangular steel tubing I had lying around my workshop. When it was time to paint the topsides (painted the undercarriage while mounted on rotisserie), I made up a dolly out of 3/4" plywood and 2" x 4" studding-grade pine. I built it so that I will be able to hang the suspension back on the car, before lifting it off the dolly with an engine crane.

your right about the windshield holes! they are not part of the side panel they are spot welded on; thats why i was wondering about supporting the top cowel. when i cut the side panel out it will be left hanging. but as you said it can be braced.

oh and a little off topic the new panels are painted black, do you need to remove it to paint or just key it? obviously i will take edges to bare metal to spot weld.

That cowl/scuttle is a pretty sturdy assembly, even with the side members cut out. The triangles formed by the bracing will ensure that it doesn't move and anything you feel the need to tie-in with that bracing will also be very rigidly supported.

If the new panels are genuine Heritage panels, they are reported to now have a very good coating system on them, which can be left in place and just "scuffed" to accept the next layer of coating, whatever that may be......or at least that's what Heritage is claiming and I have no reason to doubt them.

hey guys! do you think it is worth buying a full rhs inner arch? how easy are they to fit? found this on e-bay for £60 retail price £140ish.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-Mideget-inner-wheel-arch-front-drivers-off-side-/220986619101?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AMG%7CModel%3AMidget&hash=item3373d434dd

I would. I replaced them on mine. You can see some pics on my site. Make sure you test fit the front end sheet metal before you weld them in. 60 pounds is a hell of a lot less than I paid for mine!

I am a big believer in using new panels when avaialble, especially if they are heritage produced. Way too much time and money goes into these "back from the grave" projects to have the value of the finished car undermined by the look of home-made repair panels.

x2 on Peter's last post. The Heritage panels make life a WHOLE LOT easier and, at the price that one looks like it may go for, it would be money well spent. Jump on it!

ok! i also have a new heritage front section, tthe whole thing from valence to splash shields. i need to weld 2x radiator uprights on to.

i have looked at your pics loads mike! and am still finding things ive missed.