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Shorrock supercharger versus $3000 superchargers?

Posted by gadams 
Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

Charlie...it stems from a lot of what was seen as miss spent youth. Some of those guys hanging out in front of the soda fountain/pool halls evolved into gear heads...

I like the performance gain a turbo offers....I LOVE the sound and instant performance gain of a blower...
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=forced%20induction%20supercharger%20vs%20turbocharger&tnr=21&vid=1576265908268&l=485&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D1576265908268%26id%3D9eca907157c3269e426e5fad93d4bc07%26bid%3D6dVWS9a29st6lw%26bn%3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.youtube.com%252fwatch%253fv%253dMGdg2Fd2WQY&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMGdg2Fd2WQY&sigr=11ac8aevr&newfp=1&tit=Forced+Induction+-+Supercharger+vs.+Turbo+Charger



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
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NYCCharlie Avatar
Charles Linn
Lawrence, Kansas, USA   usa

In reply to a post by Robert Charlie...it stems from a lot of .... misspent youth. Some of those guys hanging out in front of the soda fountain/pool halls evolved into gear heads...

I LOVE the sound and instant performance gain of a blower...
Yeah now that you mention it I did meet one of my ex-girlfriends in front of a pool hall... thumbs up smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2012 02:14PM by NYCCharlie.
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richard jeske
clark summit, USA   usa
1974 MG Midget "The Ride"

Hello would it work on a 1275? Thank you
Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

This is made specifically for the A series 1275

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=47613&SortOrder=3



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

Member Services:
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tim65mgb Avatar
Tim Guntly
Cherry Valley, Illinois, USA   usa
1960 Daimler V8-250 "SP250"
1967 Daimler V8-250 "Delany"
2013 Mazda 3

Anyone know much about the Judson supercharger that is on my 1959 Sprite project? It has a oiler can and all looks to be in very good condition. I believe it was a factory option back then, but that is what someone told me.
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AmishIndy Avatar
Seth Jones
Wheaton, IL, USA   usa
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire"
2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"

Actually, the Judson was an aftermarket item possibly availible therough american BMC dealers ( I can't confirm this with the judson unit). The unit used was the SP model and it was claimed that it gave a boost of 20 hp (which brings a 948cc engine the HP of a later naturally aspirated 1275cc block). It was manufactured by JUDSON MF. CO. Consohocken, Pennsylvania and presumably one could buy direct.

The only "factory" unit I am aware of was the shorrock which could be had the from the donald healey motor company. No spridget was equipped with a supercharger from the Abbingdon factory, but several outfits offered conversion kits.

I have a set of installation and maintenance instruction for this unit.
http://www.spridgetguru.com/TA0048.html

This is their current website.
http://www.judsoncompany.com/
They have patent drawings and lots of other detailed info about their products.

The attached ads are from 1960 and to my knowledge are the earliest ads for a Judson kit for the Sprite



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 05:03PM by AmishIndy.

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1960 Judson Supercharger for sprite.jpg

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Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

As Seth says, both Judson and Paxton are US add ons in the day and not factory options. I would suspect an original unit, unless NOS would be something requiring careful inspection at this point in time.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

Member Services:
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AmishIndy Avatar
Seth Jones
Wheaton, IL, USA   usa
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire"
2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"

BTW, hers a parts list
http://www.team.net/www/healey/tech/sprite/engine/judson_parts.html

I know the following is more for a VW installation (which was the most popular), but the principles should translate well. The SP model was used on many different cars. The differences being in the pulleys and intake manifolds used (among maybe a few others).

http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/hot-vws-restoration.htm

In addition, while you're at it, you'll probibly want to rebuild that cute little holly carburettor that came with the kit.
http://www.clancy.ch/Holley_Carb.html

Not to mention The Oiler, which is ESSENTIAL beacuse otherwise the phrenolic vanes in the blower will wear themselves out very quickly.
http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/oiler_page.htm#Marvel%20Oiler%20Servicing%20Instructions

For more oil, go here
http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 05:55PM by AmishIndy.
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tim65mgb Avatar
Tim Guntly
Cherry Valley, Illinois, USA   usa
1960 Daimler V8-250 "SP250"
1967 Daimler V8-250 "Delany"
2013 Mazda 3

Seth, thanks for the info. That Judson is exactly what I have with oiler.
AmishIndy Avatar
Seth Jones
Wheaton, IL, USA   usa
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire"
2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"

NP, if you do decide to go over it yourself, take some pictures and put it in the library. I know we'd all love to see it. BTW I also found the following interesting

http://lbc.gotstogo.com/weblogsm1/archives/2002/11/keywords_948cc_hif44_su_accele.php



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 10:44PM by AmishIndy.
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7mg2 Avatar
Andrew Hardie
Calgary, Alberta, Canada   can
1969 MG MGC GT "Mr "C""
1972 MG Midget

Gerry, where are these "good deals" on Shorrocks superchargers?

I had been looking for one and bid on one in the UK last year which ended up going north of 1200 UK pounds. It was complete in it's original box with installation instructions and everything, but was too rich for me, so I passed.
It's the only one I've found.
The Judson isn't as durable for aforementioned reasons relating to its "type". But the Rootes type blowers like the GM and Eaton are probably the best, just not really "period correct" for our Spridgets.



Andy

NAMGBR# 20-7738
AMGCRA# 1678
AmishIndy Avatar
Seth Jones
Wheaton, IL, USA   usa
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire"
2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"

Of course there may be another problem with shorrock superchargers. They were designed primarily for home market models which means. . .



the air filter or carburettor might just interfere with the pedal box.
Gerry Adams
Lincoln, Nebraska, USA   usa

Hello 7mg2
Here was the deal I saw that started off the conversation:
http://london.inetgiant.co.uk/london/addetails/shorrock-c75b-supercharger-kit-800/3250464

800 BP
JJFarkas Avatar
Jason Farkas
New Boston, MI, USA   usa
1974 MG Midget "Ruby"
AmishIndy Avatar
Seth Jones
Wheaton, IL, USA   usa
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire"
2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"

For a spridget application, you'd have put a bulge in the hood and it really wouldnt offer much advantage since its just an SPI system. What would definately be more worth it is MPI (which can much better manage engine conditions per cylinder for maximum power. Such a system is best set up using a 7 or 8 port head, both of which exist for the a-series. This of course would require an engine build with these heads in mind, and you'd probibly want to do some work on the bottom end to make it so it would tolerate extended use at higher RPM's (more fun that way). Then of course you'd want to put together the rest of the stuff from a place like megasquirt or something like that, but the end result would be far better.

http://www.med-engineering.co.uk/bespoke-products/med-7-port-built-engines
7mg2 Avatar
Andrew Hardie
Calgary, Alberta, Canada   can
1969 MG MGC GT "Mr "C""
1972 MG Midget

In reply to # 1990775 by gadams Hello 7mg2
Here was the deal I saw that started off the conversation:
http://london.inetgiant.co.uk/london/addetails/shorrock-c75b-supercharger-kit-800/3250464

800 BP

Thanks Gerry. Even at 800BP it ain't cheap, but then this deal is complete with EVERYTHING including header, so great value.
Seth makes a good point about interference with the pedal box on LHD cars, but I think Shorrock made a shorter intake runner for export applications.



Andy

NAMGBR# 20-7738
AMGCRA# 1678
JJFarkas Avatar
Jason Farkas
New Boston, MI, USA   usa
1974 MG Midget "Ruby"

Not sure if I missed this in the thread but what's the general difference between a turbo and super chargers? BTW, i like Hap's and others' advice on the biggest bang for our bucks...ported head and higher compression.

JJ
AmishIndy Avatar
Seth Jones
Wheaton, IL, USA   usa
1971 MG Midget MkIII "Guenevire"
2007 Mazda 3 "Porco Rosso"

turbos always have a bit of lag in the response time, so they dont launch of the line as well unless you spin up the turbo first. Superchargers take a bit more power to operate than turbos but provide instant response. Turbos are cheaper in general, but in the case of midgets there are no bolt in kits, you have to adapt parts from an MG Metro Turbo (or make your own kit). Metro turbo parts arent the easiest to come by in the states either.
7mg2 Avatar
Andrew Hardie
Calgary, Alberta, Canada   can
1969 MG MGC GT "Mr "C""
1972 MG Midget

Turbo's are exhaust gas driven, superchargers belt or gear (mechanically) driven. Less pumping power loss theoretically with a turbo, but there is a lag in boost not present with supercharging.
Forced induction has a different set of problems in the search for increased power, than does the "porting/polishing" naturally aspirated approach. Both routes have their fans and detractors, but if everything is taken care of as it should be, supercharging will probably get you more HP to the road per dollar spent. Reliability becomes the issue at this point, which is where Hap's argument starts to gain some traction IMHO.

I have a "breathed on" engine or two, but still have a yearning to "boost" one, perhaps just to satisfy my curiosity regarding the merits of one versus the other.



Andy

NAMGBR# 20-7738
AMGCRA# 1678
Robert Kirk
Davenport, Iowa, USA   usa

In reply to # 1991216 by JJFarkas Not sure if I missed this in the thread but what's the general difference between a turbo and super chargers? JJ
Jason,

If you care to visit the site I posted at the top of page two, the differences benefits shortcomings are pretty well defined. I believe generically they are are all supercharges...some have mechanical input some use by pass gasses...turbo chargers generically... but not to be confused with turbin drive such as jet engines or the Granatelli/Andretti entry at Indy for one brief race.



Regards,
Robert Kirk
kirkbrit@yahoo.com
563 323 1017
Moss distributor UK importer
Beat or match any retail/delivered quote

Member Services:
Parts for your classic British and Italian car. 30 years in business.
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