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Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal

Posted by paddyreardon

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Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #1
paddyreardon Paddy Reardon Calne, Wiltshire., United Kingdom 1956 MG Magnette ZA	Posted: July 23, 2012 07:19AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 135

Does anyone know if it is possible to remove the Ford Gearbox and Hi-gear bell housing without removing the entire engine?

I think my spigot bearing has failed and I need to get under the clutch to take a look, I really don't want to take out the whole engine.

I seem to recall hearing it was possible, but confirmation would be fantastic.

Thanks

Paddy

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #2
B-racer Jeff Schlemmer Minnesota, USA 1958 MG magnette 1971 MG MGB "POS" 1973 MG Midget MkII 2006 Dodge Charger "Daytona" 2008 Ford Super Duty	Posted: July 24, 2012 07:42AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 12,506

Just pull it out. If the pilot bushing has failed, you'll need to pull it anyway. This is always a good time to replace tappet cover gaskets, as well as reapir other leaks and clean things up.

jeff@advanceddistributors.com

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #3
geezer charles durning Magee, MS, USA 1958 MG Magnette ZB "Chick Magnette"	Posted: July 24, 2012 07:47AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 400

I haven't removed the engine in my Magnette yet. That being said it looks to be a simple process. May not be worth the fight to remove the trans only.

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #4
enigmas Vince Stok Melbourne, Australia	Posted: July 24, 2012 08:57AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 389

Paddy sounds like you've got a modified car. I'm sure there's not 2 alike so you'll just have to take your best shot. What you do and don't like is not often what you get. Just Go to it.

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #5
paddyreardon Paddy Reardon Calne, Wiltshire., United Kingdom 1956 MG Magnette ZA	Posted: July 24, 2012 09:36AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 135

My problem comes from a lack of height.

The garage at home is too low to lift the engine and gearbox out. If I start the job at home I must be able to finish it.

I have no other work to do with on engine as it is all recently refurbished.

I think I made some error when I installed the 5 speed box around 2 months ago. I only need to get to the flywheel to remove the specially modified spigot housing and bush.

Charles, With a stock gearbox it is impossible to remove the transmission with the engine in the car.

Vince, The Hi-gear gearbox mod is almost a standard part, quite a number of Magnettes have the mod which doesn't require any significant changes to the standard car.

I was hoping someone had managed to separate the engine and Type 9 gearbox.

Anyone?

Paddy

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #6
enigmas Vince Stok Melbourne, Australia	Posted: July 24, 2012 05:03PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 389

Hi Paddy, I haven't had a standard Magnette in decades. Years ago though the second gear synchro self destructed in one of my first Magnettes and yes the gearbox was removed from underneath but it was torturous especially on your own. Perhaps if you nose the car out the garage door and pull the engine gearbox combo that way you'd have more room to manoeuvre.

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #7
Clacksman Andy Dear Central Scotland, United Kingdom 1957 MG Magnette ZB "Maggie - Aren't They All?" 1997 MG F 2004 MG ZT-T	Posted: July 24, 2012 05:11PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 104

Hi Paddy,

More years ago than I care to remember I also removed the standard gearbox from my then ZB without removing the engine. As Vince says, it was a real struggle. I have never tried it that way again. In my opinion the Ford type 9 box would be even more difficult - probably impossible - as it is a much closer fit in the tunnel.

I have had plenty of practice removing the engine and gearbox together recently. My remanufactured 3-main engine is now back in for the second time after 7 weeks with the rebuilder.

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #8
mjamgb michael anderson NORTHERN NEVADA, USA 1954 MG Magnette ZA 1967 MG MGB 1973 MG MGB 1974 MG Midget	Posted: July 25, 2012 03:16PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 6,395

Doesn't the T-9 have a separate bell-housing? if so, are all the bolts/nuts accessable from the outside?

RE: removing engine... you can pull the radiator and radiator support and not lift the engine/gearbox combo very high at all (but space is narrow so you have to remove all accessories).

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #9
Be Coming Kelvin Dodd So. Calif., USA 1957 MG MGA 1957 MG MGA Coupe 1958 MG Magnette 1959 MG MGA 1962 Morgan 4 Seater → more	Posted: July 25, 2012 07:13PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 4,654

Paddy.

I've attached a couple of images I took when installing the engine and T9 into my Magnette.

It looks like you can remove the rear mount assembly, then slide the gearbox far enough back to disengage the input shaft from the clutch.

The bell housing is far enough out of the trans tunnel to have some backward movement. Hopefully enough.

Worst case, you may have to slide the engine forward a bit which won't require height.

Kelvin.

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #10
paddyreardon Paddy Reardon Calne, Wiltshire., United Kingdom 1956 MG Magnette ZA	Posted: July 26, 2012 01:33PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 135

Well, I now have the answer!

Yes, it is possible to remove the modified gearbox without touching the engine.

I needed to disconnect the exhaust and lay it on the floor, remove the starter motor, gearlever, speedo drive cable, propshaft and take off the clutch slave.

After that it was fairly simple to unbolt the bell housing and shift the gearbox back to disengage the input shaft.

Most of the gear oil came out but otherwise not a bad job to do. Refit was similarly simple, if a lot heavier.

The whole job took about 5 hours on my own. Would have been quicker with someone to help with the lifting under the car.

Thanks to all for the input.

Kelvin, How did you find the clearance of the propshaft over the gusset in the tunnel? mine was only about 1/8" and it occasionally touches it when you go over a large bump.

Paddy

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #11
Be Coming Kelvin Dodd So. Calif., USA 1957 MG MGA 1957 MG MGA Coupe 1958 MG Magnette 1959 MG MGA 1962 Morgan 4 Seater → more	Posted: July 26, 2012 04:53PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 4,654

Paddy.

That's good information to know. I have to pull the motor out of my Magnette and it may be a heck of a lot easier to drop the transmission, then pull the engine vertically out of the bay without having to remove the radiator support.

What do you think?

I figured out how the factory put the driveline into the cars. If you look at the radiator support there are four small drill holes to index the support. I figure the bodyshells were assembled, then on the production line, the radiator support was removed, the power train slid in, then the support reinstalled using the index holes to accurately locate it.

The same index holes are found on MGB bonnets, which is what gave me the hint. I had to replace my radiator support because some idiot had cut the original one probably to remove a motor.

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #12
paddyreardon Paddy Reardon Calne, Wiltshire., United Kingdom 1956 MG Magnette ZA	Posted: July 29, 2012 05:01AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 135

Hi Kelvin,

It should be no problem to drop the gearbox separately. Looking at your photo, I'm guessing you have access to a car hoist and a useful workshop. I managed in a shed with the car on axle stands and it was relatively easy.

It may help to tie a piece of rope around the tailpiece of the gearbox and feed it up through the shifter aperture to support some of the weight of the gearbox as you manoeuvre the front end.

The engine will lift vertically when the gearbox is off and should easily clear the cross brace.

I have removed the radiator cross brace every time the engine has been out. As far as I know there is no alternative with the original gearbox fitted. I'm not so sure about the index marks though, the brace has slotted holes to allow for adjustment of the wing position and the general inaccuracy of the cars dimensions.

Regards

Paddy

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #13
B-racer Jeff Schlemmer Minnesota, USA 1958 MG magnette 1971 MG MGB "POS" 1973 MG Midget MkII 2006 Dodge Charger "Daytona" 2008 Ford Super Duty	Posted: July 31, 2012 07:42AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 12,506

In reply to # 2130335 by paddyreardon

Kelvin, How did you find the clearance of the propshaft over the gusset in the tunnel? mine was only about 1/8" and it occasionally touches it when you go over a large bump.

Paddy

I'd shim the tranny mount to give adequate clearance, even though it can upset the driveline angle a bit. A bent driveshaft would be a real disaster!!!

jeff@advanceddistributors.com

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Re: Hi Gear 5 Speed Gearbox removal #14
Be Coming Kelvin Dodd So. Calif., USA 1957 MG MGA 1957 MG MGA Coupe 1958 MG Magnette 1959 MG MGA 1962 Morgan 4 Seater → more	Posted: July 31, 2012 03:31PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 4,654

In reply to # 2130335 by paddyreardon
Kelvin, How did you find the clearance of the propshaft over the gusset in the tunnel? mine was only about 1/8" and it occasionally touches it when you go over a large bump.

Paddy

Sorry, missed replying to this. Jeff has a good point. So far I havn't had any issues with the driveshaft location.

I'm running 1" lowering blocks on the rear springs to reduce the tail happy attitude of the car with only driver and passenger. This may have some effect on the drive shaft location.

I'm also running TR4 engine mounts which seem to sit the engine where it needs to be and the standard mounting bits from Hi Gear.

Kelvin.

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