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Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material?

Posted by Duncan

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Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #1
Duncan Duncan Cowen Vancouver, Canada 1956 MG MGA 1500	Posted: June 16, 2012 09:06PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 1,360

My front wings have no spacers between them and the a-pillars. That's how it was when I took them off to repair the tub underneath, but now when I try to put the weather stripping in the door openings, I can't close the doors - not enough space between the a-pillar and the door when the door is nicely aligned with the wing.

I understand I should have a thin strip of something between the a-pillar and the wing. It's not shown in the Moss blow-ups of their body parts. I've heard people use strips of plastic, but how thick should these spacers be? What was the original material? I`m sure someone has discussed this before, but my searches of the archives have been fruitless..

Thanks for any advice!

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #2
GILMGA Gil Dupre Chattanooga, TN, USA 1962 MG MGA 1974 MG MGB GT	Posted: June 16, 2012 09:18PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 7,308

Include photo
You may have to bend the lip that stip is attached too. Could be the door panels are two thick. Lots of fun

Gil

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2012 09:19PM by GILMGA.

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #3
ghnl Eric Russell North Carolina, USA	Posted: June 16, 2012 09:58PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 532

In reply to # 2095570 by Duncan ...when I try to put the weather stripping in the door openings, I can't close the doors...

What was your source for the weatherstrip? There are reports of some weatherstip that is too large causing the problem you describe. The weatherstrip that Todd Clarke sells is reportedly a better fit.

Eric Russell ~ Mebane, NC
1960 MGA, 1981 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 1984 Alfa Romeo Spider, 1991 Honda ST1100

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #4
JimNH Jim Mail Nashua, New Hampshire, USA 1957 MG MGA "Camilla (the Other Woman)"	Posted: June 16, 2012 10:20PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 2,657

confused here by spacer between a pillar and wing.

the only spacers are the ones behind the hinges (if needed), the weatherstrip around the door (if you call that a spacer) and the welting itself (as a kind of spacer).

It sounds to me like you need to loosen the hinges a wee bit and then close the door. That should push the hinges outboard a bit on the A-pillar. gently open the door again and snug down one bolt per hinge and try it a few times. then tighten all bolts.

You probably will have to move the rear striker slightly (like 1/16" winking smiley

outboard as well.

before this problem, were your door gaps good all the way around?

JIM in NH

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #5
barneymg Barney Gaylord Naperville, Illinois, USA 1958 MG MGA "MGA With An Attitude"	Posted: June 17, 2012 12:20AM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2,155

I'd give 10:1 odds you have the wrong door seal. See here:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/body/bd103f.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/interior/int108a.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/interior/int108b.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/interior/int108c.htm

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude - http://MGAguru.com
Notice: - Do not leave a PM for me on the forum server. Send any private message to my personal e-mail address barneymg@mgaguru.com

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #6
bobs77vet bob k arlington, va, USA	Posted: June 17, 2012 06:39PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 637

these are 1/8" solid metal

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2012 06:40PM by bobs77vet.

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #7
Steve B Steve Brannan Orlando, Florida, USA 1956 MG MGA 1500 1958 MG MGA 1500 Coupe 1959 Mini MkI "Moocher" 1968 MG MGC GT 1974 Triumph Spitfire 1500	Posted: June 17, 2012 07:31PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 167

Duncan, are you referring to the metal bracing on the inside of the wing that bolts up to the body tub and putts up against the A pillar?
Steve

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #8
JimNH Jim Mail Nashua, New Hampshire, USA 1957 MG MGA "Camilla (the Other Woman)"	Posted: June 17, 2012 09:48PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 2,657

Duncan, if Steve is right then there is no spacer there. you loosen the nuts inside the footwell area, as well as all the other nuts on the fender, and slide the fender a bit forward if you need a bigger door gap, or move the door aft with a shim under the hinge.

In general, you want to hang the doors FIRST - get the dash and rocker lined up nice - then hang the fenders and fudge with shims and swearing until the door gaps are all acceptable. You don't fit the doors to the fenders/wings except for maybe minor tweaks.

JIM in NH

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #9
Duncan Duncan Cowen Vancouver, Canada 1956 MG MGA 1500	Posted: June 17, 2012 11:47PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 1,360

Steve, I'm not referring to the bracing you describe, but in fact a separate piece of material that is placed between the tub where it rests on the A-pillar, and the wing bracing. Confusing? Sorry!! confused smiley

The problem I've run into is that if I loosen the door hinges and move the door outboard (so I can close the door with the weatherstripping in place), the door protrudes further from the car than the trailing edge of the wing!

I've heard of people using spacers made of strips of aluminium, but I was worried about galvanic corrosion. I've also heard of people using UHMW Polyethylene, but I don't have a source as wide as the contact patch on the A-pillar, unless I somehow shave down a cutting board... I have heard that the factory originally used felt, or some kind of fabric/rubber, when they had to space out the back edge of the wing.

My door weatherstripping was purchased new from Octagon Motors in Vancouver. I've actually just bought a new batch from them, after shoehorning the old bits onto my Dad's A (to make a long story short, I "Overhauled" his ratty MkII for his 65th).

Bob, does your post include a picture of the convertible top frame mount under the rear wing? I'm talking about "stuff" sitting between the front wing and the car.

Barney, I've just persued your wonderful pages on the subject. I haven't looked at the new seal in a few months, but I'm pretty sure the old one (maybe 4 years old?), also from Octagon, was a tube-style seal. I hope I remember to go over those pages again when I tackle the tub repair on the passenger side this winter!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2012 11:55PM by Duncan.

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #10
barneymg Barney Gaylord Naperville, Illinois, USA 1958 MG MGA "MGA With An Attitude"	Posted: June 18, 2012 01:08AM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2,155

The tube-type door seal sucks (being as nice as I can be about it). I suffered for 20 years with that malady before I got the right door seal from Clarke Spares.

I believe Moss Motors USA is now selling the correct door seal, the one noted as "original 2-part door seal with separate furflex and neoprene seals". I suppose they buy the stuff from Clarke Spares. Difference is the Clarke Spares door seals come completely assembled, ready to install on the car with all of the metal clips in correct location. You buy the Moss material by the yard with separate clips and have to assemble it yourself, which is a fiddly bit of a chore. It may also be less expensive when purchased directly from Clarke Spares, but I haven't priced the stuff lately. Moss sells the rubber seal piece separately by the yard, in case you might ever need to replace it while keeping the original furflex piece. I don't know if anyone will ever do that. I suspect the idea of selling the parts disassembled is an inventory issue, stocking multiple colors of the furflex and only one bin full of the rubber seal material. Also a better selection of furflex colors from Clarke Spares.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude - http://MGAguru.com
Notice: - Do not leave a PM for me on the forum server. Send any private message to my personal e-mail address barneymg@mgaguru.com

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #11
JimNH Jim Mail Nashua, New Hampshire, USA 1957 MG MGA "Camilla (the Other Woman)"	Posted: June 18, 2012 08:39AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 2,657

No spacer should be there - I agree with Barney - get the right door seals from Todd Clarke and you'll be all set.

JIM in NH

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #12
Big Ed Ed Brorein New Jersey, USA	Posted: June 18, 2012 08:54AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 457

Hi Duncan,
I do remember seeing what you are talking about in a manual or book at one time. Where did you see this? I think they used some kind of fiberboard, which may have been waterproofed to some extent. The factory added this as needed to adjust the profile of the rear edge of the front fender to be more closely aligned / flush with the leading edge of the door. It would be of only very limited range and unlikely be of much any help in moving the door out more. Like everyone else here is saying your problem is no doubt the seal you are using. Regards, Ed

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #13
Duncan Duncan Cowen Vancouver, Canada 1956 MG MGA 1500	Posted: June 18, 2012 09:33AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 1,360

Ed, so maybe I'm not crazy? eye rolling smiley

I am forgetful, however. I can't remember when I saw this. Might have been when I took apart my '56 to repair the tub on the driver's side, or maybe a '58 I watched come apart, or a '62. All of this work happened in the same garage, and I'm betting I saw the OEM spacer on one of these three cars. The discussion about what people use to replace it came after I'd seen an old one, when we were discussing how to replace it with modern materials.

I can't imagine Octagon will take back this door seal I already have, even though I haven't cut or installed it yet... chalk that up to experience, I guess!

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #14
HAC286 Garry Kemm Victoria, Australia	Posted: June 18, 2012 10:26AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 23

Duncan,
You are correct about a spacer/packing piece, some sort of fibreboard. It is available from Todd Clarke, refer his catalogue illustration 18, page 15, part number P7 at $3.60 pair. But you may not need them if you use his correct specification door seals. Well worth the cost. Garry

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #15
Duncan Duncan Cowen Vancouver, Canada 1956 MG MGA 1500	Posted: June 18, 2012 11:39AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 1,360

Thanks Garry, that is exactly what I was talking about - I'm pretty sure that would solve my problems with the door seals, too. Of course, I can order the packing strips when I get the proper door seals anyways!
smileys with beer

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2012 11:56AM by Duncan.

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Attachments:

Fender Packing.JPG (61.5 KB) –

Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #16
Big Ed Ed Brorein New Jersey, USA	Posted: June 18, 2012 05:20PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 457

Hi Duncan,

You're in good company! I've taken apart and put back together (as well!) a couple of MGAs but not in a long time now. I think I found the packing on the driver's side of the 1600 I now have but did not find it on the other cars. I think it was used only when needed to get a closer fit/curavture of the fender to the door. It pushes out the fender mainly in its middle section. I don't think it was more than 0.1 inches thick. Regards, Ed

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #17
Duncan Duncan Cowen Vancouver, Canada 1956 MG MGA 1500	Posted: June 19, 2012 02:13AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 1,360

In reply to # 2097232 by Big Ed I think it was used only when needed to get a closer fit/curavture of the fender to the door. It pushes out the fender mainly in its middle section. I don't think it was more than 0.1 inches thick. Regards, Ed

This makes sense. The fenders are very flexible above and below the mounting framework in the middle.

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #18
barneymg Barney Gaylord Naperville, Illinois, USA 1958 MG MGA "MGA With An Attitude"	Posted: June 19, 2012 02:20AM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2,155

Clarke Spares may be selling the packing strip, but that doesn't mean it was factory issue. I was just researching this a bit. The Service Parts Lists for MGA 1500 and 1600/1600-MK-II do not show this part.

However, I did find it in the SPL for MGA Twin Cam. It is BMC part number AFH3840, listed as two (2) per vehicle either RHD or LHD, no exception, and not noted A/R (as required). So if you can believe the factory books, there may be something special about the Twin Cam inner body shell the requires these spacers. Perhaps the body factory goofed with construction of the assembly and spot welding jigs for the Twin Cam body.

Given availability of this part, it may be useful for repair of collision damage if the inner fender is dislocated inward. I would NOT recommend using it to space out fenders and doors just to accommodate an incorrect door seal. It is against my morals to screw up perfectly good parts to accommodate faulty replacement parts.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude - http://MGAguru.com
Notice: - Do not leave a PM for me on the forum server. Send any private message to my personal e-mail address barneymg@mgaguru.com

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #19
Big Ed Ed Brorein New Jersey, USA	Posted: June 19, 2012 11:35AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 457

Hi Barney,
You are absolutely right, trying to space things out to accomodate the wrong seal is the wrong approach. The aforementioned spacer would not really make enough difference in spacing the fender out, and then front of the door, to make up for the wrong door seal. And you got the rest of the door going back towards the B-post to contend with, and then your would no longer line up with the rocker panel. It wouldn't work.

I have to say however the MGA's I took apart had not been apart before, there was no evendence of any accident damage or dealer work, and the spacer I found there on the one fender was a factory made part. It was just enough to give the fender a little more crown shape and better match the profile of the leading edge of the door. With the top and bottom edges of the fender secured there is a limit to how much spacer one could stuff in that spot. Also, I wish it was a twin cam! Regards, Ed

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Re: Spacer between a-pillar and wing: thickness? Material? #20
peter d peter h yorkshire, United Kingdom 1958 MG MGA Coupe 1977 MG MGB "Abomination"	Posted: June 19, 2012 12:16PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 699

I was only talking about this last week to James (Bob Wests mechanic). I was asking him about the best way to align the doors on my Coupe.In the conversation he said he had seen many examples where the A post had been creased at the factory to get that finale adjustment to the doors.He also said that fibre board was used in some cases to align the wing to door line at the point you are talking about.

Hopefully my doors and wings will line out without to much trouble (Then again iv always been an optimist) eye rolling smiley

If i had to use anything i think i would go for Klinger gasket but only because i have lot of the stuff.

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