Just a caution.

The new law covering hot rods, customs, kit, and home built cars just went into effect in Massachusetts the first of the month. Mayhem ensues . . .

For us folks it will only hurt if the MGA has be altered in any way. Not in any significant way, but in any way at all. Wooden steering wheel and TR6 wire wheels, it's considered a custom. Aftermarket rims and a non-factory fiberglass top, custom. Engine or transmission swap and cut-down windshield, custom. Sebring front valance and rear bumperettes, custom.

The law was crafted by Factory Five and SEMA to benefit . . . well . . . ah . . . Factory Five and SEMA. Now kit Cobras can legally be registered in Massachusetts, but it hurts everyone else and helps the state immensely. Now, all cars deemed customs by the inspection station owner (you just KNOW that they've been handed a "suggestion" to be overly aggressive in this) will have to be re-inspected at special referee stations and be given a new State Issued VIN. More money paid to the State for the inspection and new title, along with the money previously paid out for the original title.

Kinda takes the value of a MGA and drops it a bit without the original tag and matching chassis number. Plus the year of the car becomes the year of the new inspection and the original year of manufacture is dropped in to the "model" box.. The car becomes a 2012 '62 MGA. Bad for the collector who just wanted to replicate a Sebring MGA, GREAT for the kit Cobra owner (or even VW Speedster owner) who could care less about the title as long as his plastic home made piece of crap is on the road legally.

Just a quick caution for Massachusetts residents.

More exciting government intervention from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts. Arizona is looking mighty good right now. Got a 1959 plate on my MGA and a 1948 plate on my TC because that's when they were built! What a concept. Oh, and can register them for six years at a time for about 20 bucks a year. No emissions! Yay!

BTW, winter visitors are welcome to register their cars here too....

Flyover Country Rocks.

Steve

Check out the discussion on The H.A.M.B. search for "Massachusetts."

Implementation of the law is currently being put on the inspection stations, if they see a car that they don't believe is stock, they have the authority to fail the car and notify the Registry. The car has to go to one of the four (yup, just four in the whole state) state run inspection outlets and be inspected and have a state vin attached, followed by a new title and registration.

Year of manufacture and antique plates have been attached to cars that are now considered/suspected to be customs simply because the local station isn't familiar with that antique make or model. If the cars IS designated as a custom, year of manufacture or antique plates will be denied.

The BIGGEST flaw in the law is that there are no definitions given for the designations, no line in the sand as to what can be changed ans still keep within the stock designation. Right now it's ANY change at all, right down to the carpets or added driving lights, even hood straps will do it, AND, it's all up to the guy at the inspection station.

Just saying, protect those year of manufacture plates and thank Gordon and his buddies at Factory Five for their help in pushing this law through. Gordon actually even attended the meetings with the Reps involved in sponsoring it. I TOLD him that laws shouldn't be crafted by kit car manufacturers and after parts salesmen, but he called me names and shut me down.

....????.....!!!!

Wow, does this mean that when some one changes tires that it has to be the correct size and make/ snow vs all seasons?

AS I mentioned. Up to the inspection station owner. Obviously not a question of tires, but might be one of tire width and wheels. Worst case for sure, but without any guide lines, and a chance for the state to make money, and the inspection station owner dependent on the state for his inspectors permit . . . . it's far too open for interpretation right now and should have been better designed/thought out/planned/instituted.

For anyone living in Massachusetts, here's a link to the new law:

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/SessionLaws/Acts/2010/Chapter311

The custom category could almost include every car that I see on the roads.

Wow...glad I live north of the border! Even though my car is reasonably stock, I'd hate to piss off the guy doing the inspection. A dozen donuts and a hot cup of coffee as a peace offering on the passenger seat might be a good idea.

JIM

Yet another reason not to live in MA. Here they only care if the check for the registration fee is good.

Thomas, I have been following the SEMA legislation for the last 3-4 years. Your interpretation of the MA implementation is one that is at the extreme end of the spectrum. It is seldom, if ever, followed in that extreme.

The new MA law is really not different than those enacted in many states. You still have the option to register the MGA in MA as an normal passenger vehicle, or as an Antique Motor Car; In which case, there are no such limitations on wooden steering wheels, engine replacement, etc.

In regards to a "2012" MGA, The only catagory that would be possible in Massachussetts is either "normal" vehicle registration, "Antique" or "Custom". Any original MGA vehicle, with mods would not qualify under "Specially Constructed", "Street Rod", and "Replica unless you rebodied the vehicle with something like a Devon, or Jamaican body; Something that would make it look like something it isn't. From MA law So if you MGA was built in 1958, it would still be a 1958 on the title. If you built a car from scratch that was built of 100% replacement parts that looked like an MGA then it would have a 2012 model year on the registration. I doubt we differ on that small point.



As for the law being enacted for purposes of the state, I would doubt that. SEMA is working for us, the hobbyists. yes, FF is an active participant and one with vested interest. Without SEMA's lobbyists driving laws like this, we would not be able to continue our auto hobby. I'm sure that nobody in your state without outside pressure, would have, "Hmmmm, lets write a law that will really screw with the MGA owners out there." The intention is to make it simpler, not more difficult for us. Re: Cobra or Street Rod registration, Before this law, you either had a friendly DMV person, lied and got your Cobra titled as a 1965 or it was titled as a 2012 and had to meet all current legal requirements such as Emissions, OBDII, Collision etc...; a very difficult set of requirements to comply with.

I have used a similar SEMA based law in Illinois to built and leagally register a Lotus Seven "tribute" as a "Custom Vehicle" from scratch. Without the new laws, it would have been subjective as to whether I would have gotten it registered at all. Even with the new laws, I had to go thru the "one" person in the state for getting the paperwork approved before one of a handful of inspectors reviewed the car for safety and stolen parts. This is not uncommon when it comes to ask for something not mainstream. Look around. Even today, you can read about "friendly" vehicle inspection loctions, or friendly engineers that may have to sign off on frame designs etc. 40 years ago, I knew of friendly truck inspection stations in Il. Nothing has changed with this new law in that respect.

So I really don't think the new MA law is a bad thing. In fact, i feel it is the opposite. But that is just my opinion and I do not live in MA so I really don't have a dog in this fight.

As for this dog, the only directly applicable part of the law is that of the "Custom" category, and the ill defined degree of customization that will be allowed before a car is placed in this category. Would an engine transplant on an MGA make it a custom? As the law is written ANY deviation from stock would define the car as a "custom."

"“Custom vehicle”, a motor vehicle for which the year of manufacture is after 1948, for which the model year is at least 25 years old and that has been altered from the manufacturer’s ORIGINAL DESIGN or has a body constructed, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, from non-original materials."

This is far too vague to have been enacted as it is and puts too much power into the hands of the inspection stations who always lean towards the more caution side in inspections as a wrong decision will lead to loosing their certification. As the law stands, a fiberglass front valance will cause a fail as it results the body to now be made, in part, of non-original materials. That's the letter of the law, and even if there's a friendly inspection station that passes the car, there might be an unfriendly state cop a block away who will issue an equipment "fail" which will result in the inspector coming under fire and the driver now having to jump through the hoops of owning a "custom." No inspection station in Massachusetts is gonna risk being friendly with this law in effect. Honestly. These days it's a money world and their not gonna risk a mess with the state that might result in a fine or loss of certification to be friendly . . . seriously ! ! ! !

The State run inspection stations are a know horror show and I don't see things improving with the influx of new vehicles to inspect and re-vin.

The law WILL markedly make things more difficult for those owning existing hot rods, considering the new hoops to go through, the money put out, and the loss of the original VIN which sometimes is more priceless than the car itself.

You HAVE to read the comments on the H.A.M.B. in order to make a comment or informed decision. Massachusetts is a FAR different animal than any other "normal" state in this union. FAR DIFFERENT ! ! !

As for the benefits that you mention, ABSOLUTELY ! ! ! ! This new law is going to be WONDERFUL. I can't wait to finally build the '63 Corvette split window Sting Ray that I've always wanted and couldn't come close to affording. A shortened S10 chassis, fiberglass '63 repro body panels, racing seats, small block Chevy and T-5 trans mission. Built safely and right, inspected and assigned a new VIN, titled, insured, registered, legally as a 2012 1963 Corvette Sting Ray . . . just about as FABULOUS as it can get ! ! ! !

I completely agree that the law will a huge help for most everyone building new cars (like a few hobbyists and damned Factory Five) but it WILL end up with a lot of original VIN plates (like the cool little aluminum ones on the MGA) being removed and replaced with a blue MA State sticker with a different VIN. This would lower the value on more than a few cars.

Lots of different sides to be considered for sure. Great for some, good for others, bad for the remainder. Again, read the threads on The H.A.M.B. to get the current hot rod owners perspective. They just had a huge meeting with the MA DMV to have the Law changed or rescinded, to have questions answered and such. OF course it came to nothing, but it DOES show the concern within the hot rod community versus the kit car community. For one side a God send; the other, Perdition.

At the core of it all, I'm honestly offended that a small fiberglass fake Cobra manufacturer can be a huge part of effecting Massachusetts State Law exclusively for their financial end and then present the masquerade that everyone else benefits equally as well. It's cheep and sleazy and transparent, and I hate them for it. When I end up spending MY money and MY time and MY effort to jump through the hoops that THEY caused to be set up, I'll hate them even worse and hope that others are as mad and outraged as I am in this.

It's simple: Follow The Money. All you need to know.

Steve

Thomas, I can't seem to find the "search" tool over on JalopyJournal. Maybe I have to register to be able to search. I really don;t want to do that for a single visit. Can you provide a direct link to that thread?

Come to think of it, it might just be a bunch of old codgers complaining about this week's tragedy. I tend to be an extremist when things change, but you're right, the extremes are never the norms in the end. As I'm planning on an engine swap for my MGA, I'm just concerned that my little apple cart is gonna get jostled around and it'll be deemed as a "Custom". Especially as there's no option of registering it as a passenger car with those changes. Under the old law, it didn't matter, you could alter an antique in any way that you wanted as long as the title was good and the safety items were installed.

If you do decide that you want to dive into someone else's mania, here are a few links for you. In retrospect, I'd advise against it . . . look what it did to me.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=683620&highlight=massachusetts

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=686660&highlight=massachusetts

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=684676&highlight=massachusetts

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=683183&highlight=massachusetts


I AM wondering how this will affect my insurance coverage and position. I imaging that my regular carrier is going to balk at covering a "custom" car given the current definition of such under the new law. Who would insure something that deviates from stock body parts in part or in whole. Mention fiberglass as part of that deviation and the ugly word "kit car" pops up and your doomed. I have all of my stuff, cars, bike, and home, bundled nicely together under one policy, not really looking to have to go to Grundy and the like and lose the bundled discount then have to arrange indoor storage for the "custom" car in order to qualify for coverage.

A big 'ol can of worms here, but at least Factory Five can now pedal their fakes in their home state.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2012 01:58PM by TeamEvil.

I have read the linked threads. Nothing new here. Really the same as jus about every other state has experienced with the SEMA laws. It is always red-tape chaos when the laws are enacted. Left hand doesn't know that the right hand is doing. How do I handle this? What does that mean? Even years after Illinois passed the legislation the way things are beaurocratically handled the process I went thru was not well documented. Things the inspectors were looking for changed the week before my inspection. I was told that change was based on my application in some manner.

One new kink with MA perhaps is that with MA's annual "Safety Check" it may provide a little more often scrutiny on vehicles that are perhaps erroneously titled. With an MGA, I suspect that minimal changes like a change to wire wheels or the addition of a Sebring front end may not trigger an inspector's ire. Heck, if they know the car's color was embedded in the VIN they would probably pull that car off to the side if the colors don;t match. So be thankful for that. In practical terms, so long as the car meets the eye as an MGA with period changes you should be OK. This new SEAM law has been in effect since Apr 2011 not just this month. I think if re-assigning VIN's were a prolific problem, there would be more stories out there on the 'net. From what I read, those that are having issues with the law are cars that have had engine swaps and highly customized. I don't mean just a replaced engine, but let's say a GM 350 engine in a Model A Ford.

It would appear that MA has had laws on the books prior to the SEMA-based legislation that required a State-Assigned VIN when an engine change was made. It may date back to when some cars were titled based on engine serial numbers rather than Chassis numbers. I'm not sure. So even without the new law, you would have to get an assigned VIN applied with your new engine. I think when it comes to MGA's any "B-series BMC/Leyland engine would pass for original and not raise any questions. Upgrading to an S2000 engine or a Rover V8.... maybe pressing the envelope a bit.

I hope your experiences, when your time comes, are less stressful then your initial concerns.

Cheers,
Chuck

Thanks for a cool head and rational explanation ! ! !

TC says, "As I'm planning on an engine swap for my MGA, I'm just concerned that my little apple cart is gonna get jostled around and it'll be deemed as a 'Custom'."

Dude, aren't you planning to put that thing on a Beetle pan? I thought that was your plan, if not, sorry to mention it. but if so, in what universe would that NOT be a "custom?"

Under the old law, since the MGA BODY carries the identification tag, and the one of the small chassis cross member is traditionally rotted away, changing to a Beetle pan would fall under suspension modification and engine swap. As long as the body was a visual match to the registration and the VIN wasn't tampered with it would be legally an MGA.

Almost like an unwritten "profile" provision. If it looked like an MGA and had a factory MGA VIN, it was considered an MGA under the law.

This is the rub with the old hot rodders and the new law, makes things far more difficult, you know?

I totally want you to be able to do what you want, TC. With minimum hassle. The world is a more interesting and much finer place with the likes of you in it.

Still, I gotta say, if you're right about the OLD Massachusetts law, then my car really is a '52 MG. Or, at least, it could be, if I lived in Springfield or Amherst.

And I really don't think that makes sense--or would make sense, at least--in Reality Land.

Not a brief for Reality Land, mind ya. I visit occasionally, find it insipid, and I'm pretty sure they don't like me either. But still.

Carry on.

Having a fiberglass body rather than a steel body to start with would be the hang-up with your ride. With mine, it's all metal with a custom chassis/suspension and drive train swap.

Outwardly/visually, no change what-so-ever. It's all hidden under nice original MGA sheet metal. I could even tune the VW engine's exhaust to match the MGA. No hint at all.


However . . . The new law would REALLY hurt cars like these below:

http://bringatrailer.com/2011/11/05/seller-submission-1960-porsche-356-street-driven-racer/

http://bringatrailer.com/2011/10/07/bat-exclusive-1958-porsche-speedster-scca-race-car/

The first one, already on the street, would have to surrender the priceless Porsche VIN and suffer with a state assigned one. You KNOW what that does to the value of a 356 ! !

Were the second car converted to occasional street use, original parts replacing the racing pieces, it too would end up, under the new law, with a state vin rather than the original 356 tags.

I know that I'm flogging a dead animal here, just trying to make a clear point that keeps getting muddied. Hopefully these two examples of real and highly collectible cars helps bring the discussion back on point. It's cars like these that would now be titled as customs were they put on the street and loose they original identification/VIN/papers/provenience. In the Porsche world that's death for a 356.

Dude, those are both customs. As is your MGA project. You should get over it.

Now this, this is an "original."