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Original/Correct Horn Location?

Posted by PNodtvedt

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Original/Correct Horn Location? #1
PNodtvedt Paul Nodtvedt Mt. Pleasant, SC, USA 1960 MG MGA 1974 MG MGB GT 1976 Triumph TR6	Posted: December 27, 2011 02:09PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 535

OK - this will sound like a stupid question from a guy who's owned his 1960 MGA for just over 40 years. When I bought the car it had a single Lucas windtone horn - of the "non-functioning" variety. Being the teenager I was back then, I promptly removed that original horn, threw it away and mounted a set of cool - or so I thought back then - Marchal air horns behind the grill.
Fast-forward forty years and I have a new set of reproduction Windtones to replace the air horns that haven't worked in a number of years. I had been thinking all along that the windtones would mount in the space behind the grill, one on either side, above the valance panel/"floor" that runs back from the grill opening. But then I read something that made me wonder whether the horns were actually supposed to be mounted UNDER this valance panel, fastened somehow to the frame extension piece that offers up the bumper mounting points.
Can someone whose car has the original horn(s) confirm for me whether the horns go above or below the valance panel?
Thanks!
Paul

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #2
barneymg Barney Gaylord Naperville, Illinois, USA 1958 MG MGA "MGA With An Attitude"	Posted: December 27, 2011 02:27PM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2,152

See here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et109a.htm

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude - http://MGAguru.com
Notice: - Do not leave a PM for me on the forum server. Send any private message to my personal e-mail address barneymg@mgaguru.com

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #3
PNodtvedt Paul Nodtvedt Mt. Pleasant, SC, USA 1960 MG MGA 1974 MG MGB GT 1976 Triumph TR6	Posted: December 27, 2011 03:13PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 535

Thanks, Barney! Looks like I need to fabricate a couple of special brackets to mount the horns to the frame extensions. These repro horns have a single wide mounting tab with two holes in it, vs. the original horns that, based on your picture, appear to have two independent narrower mounting tabs. Basically a right angle bracket with holes spaced to match the horn on one "side" and holes spaced to mount to the frame extension on the other side.

I had erroneously run the horn "leg" of my new wiring harness up behind the grill along with the jumper that feeds the driver's side head and running lights - I'll need to pull it back and drop it down through the valance somewhere to connect to the new "subterranean" horns.

Paul

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #4
RJBrown Randy Brown Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA 1958 MG MGA 1500 1958 MG MGA 1500 Coupe 1960 MG MGA 1600 "Later" 1962 MG MGA MkII	Posted: December 27, 2011 03:31PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 804

The bracket you threw away as a youth will need to be replaced and a second found. (mirror image, different part) Moss part #s 405-800 and 405-900. Bracket attached to the horn in the picture.

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #5
RJBrown Randy Brown Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA 1958 MG MGA 1500 1958 MG MGA 1500 Coupe 1960 MG MGA 1600 "Later" 1962 MG MGA MkII	Posted: December 27, 2011 03:34PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 804

The bracket could easily be fabricated. the bend is not 90 degrees. see pic.

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #6
Gary E Gary Edwards Kernersville, ,N.C., USA 1962 MG MGA MkII 1974 MG MGB GT	Posted: December 27, 2011 03:37PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,214

I made my own brackets and it's not to hard. Make one our of cardboard and keep redoing,redoing and redoing or just buy some from Moss for $34.95 each......The $35 each is why I made my own.
Better yet find someone with one and make a copy.

Gary

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #7
PNodtvedt Paul Nodtvedt Mt. Pleasant, SC, USA 1960 MG MGA 1974 MG MGB GT 1976 Triumph TR6	Posted: December 27, 2011 04:50PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 535

Randy,
The pictures are great. Thank you for posting them! I believe I can fabricate a pair of those without much trouble. As they say, "We have the technology . . ."

I had checked Moss and - like Gary - thought the $35 each was a bit steep.

Paul

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #8
PNodtvedt Paul Nodtvedt Mt. Pleasant, SC, USA 1960 MG MGA 1974 MG MGB GT 1976 Triumph TR6	Posted: December 27, 2011 06:18PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 535

I just lay down and looked up under the front of the car (had previously been focused on the upper side of the valance panel) and - lo and behold - the bracket for the horn I removed 40 years ago is actually still there - bolted to the frame extension piece! I'm sure I'd seen it up under there over the years, but apparently it never registered. I can remove it and perhaps modify it to accept the somewhat different mounting hole pattern on the new passenger side horn (mentioned in an earlier entry on this thread) and then use it for a pattern to fabricate the driver's side bracket for the high note horn.

Not sure if I'm going to wire in a relay or not - been reading conflicting opinions on the need for one - but one way or the other I think the windtones will be making some noise before too much longer . . .

Paul

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #9
barneymg Barney Gaylord Naperville, Illinois, USA 1958 MG MGA "MGA With An Attitude"	Posted: December 28, 2011 01:57AM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2,152

I find it odd (a little odd) that I don't have these brackets on my car, and they are no longer in my possession. I must have removed them about 20 years ago when installing aftermarket horns. If someone has a loose bracket handy, I would appreciate it if you could trace around the two flat sides (with holes) and the trace around end showing the end angle. If you would add one dimension for size reference, scan the tracing and send it to me, I would be happy to make a CAD drawing and post it on my web site.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude - http://MGAguru.com
Notice: - Do not leave a PM for me on the forum server. Send any private message to my personal e-mail address barneymg@mgaguru.com

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #10
cschaefer Chuck Schaefer West Chicago,IL, USA	Posted: December 28, 2011 07:17AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 656

Barney, Just remember that they are handed.You will need 2 drawings. They are mirror images and probably got bent from the same punched blank. When I added a high note horn, the high note horn came without a bracket. I had a spare low note bracket and cut it along the bend. I then rewelded it to the new angle. Just another way to skin the cat!

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #11
Gary E Gary Edwards Kernersville, ,N.C., USA 1962 MG MGA MkII 1974 MG MGB GT	Posted: December 28, 2011 09:48AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 5,214

The dual windtones really demand attention.. Might even raise the eyebrows of a MACK driver.
I put in a relay just to be sure. I may still have some of the correct color wire for the second horn if you are interested.

Gary

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2011 10:03AM by Gary E.

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #12
mgaex189 Giovanni Delicio Obrigheim, Rheinpfalz, Germany 1955 MG MGA 1500 "C2" 1955 MG MGA 1500 "C1" 1955 MG MGA 1500 1960 MG MGA 1600 Coupe 1961 MG MGA MkII	Posted: December 28, 2011 10:00AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 326

See this pic.
There you can see that the horn has 2 fixing holes.

Giovanni

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #13
wyatt Wyatt W penguin point, drift ice, Antarctica 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1960 MG MGA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: December 28, 2011 10:25AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 23,301

...another shot from the front, thats my best bending over if I wanna get back up.. sorry

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #14
barneymg Barney Gaylord Naperville, Illinois, USA 1958 MG MGA "MGA With An Attitude"	Posted: December 28, 2011 05:07PM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2,152

I know they are handed brackets, but it only takes one template and a note saying "BEND UP" for one part and "BEND DOWN" for the other part. Or with CAD it is just as easy to mirror the whole drawing and print it twice. The essential information is material thickness, a cutting template, and a bend angle. Anybody got one to trace and measure?

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude - http://MGAguru.com
Notice: - Do not leave a PM for me on the forum server. Send any private message to my personal e-mail address barneymg@mgaguru.com

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #15
wyatt Wyatt W penguin point, drift ice, Antarctica 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1960 MG MGA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: December 28, 2011 09:03PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 23,301

...I'll look tomorrow...

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #16
marshgrassA Irene B South Carolina, USA 1961 MG MGA ""little Car"" 1961 MG MGA ""little Car"" 1967 Triumph TR4A "Little Bad Boy"	Posted: December 29, 2011 07:37AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 358

Paul,
I am 99% sure the horns are correct on my car. You can take pics and measurements if needed. I am sure Wray would let us put it on his lift.

Happy New Year,
Irene

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #17
wyatt Wyatt W penguin point, drift ice, Antarctica 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1958 Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1960 MG MGA 1966 MG MGB	Posted: December 29, 2011 09:02AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 23,301

...three extensions and two horns...no bracket...I'll keep looking

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #18
RJBrown Randy Brown Highlands Ranch, Colorado, USA 1958 MG MGA 1500 1958 MG MGA 1500 Coupe 1960 MG MGA 1600 "Later" 1962 MG MGA MkII	Posted: December 29, 2011 12:02PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 804

Traced original. Bend on line, one each way.

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #19
barneymg Barney Gaylord Naperville, Illinois, USA 1958 MG MGA "MGA With An Attitude"	Posted: December 30, 2011 08:52PM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 2,152

And so by popular demand, we have drawings for the horn brackets. See here:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et109b.htm
Thanks to Tony Leyva and Randy Brown for tracings and dimensions.

If anyone has a loose bracket handy they can lay it on the full scale drawing to see how well it might match. For reason of functionality there are only three critical dimensions on this part: 3.000" between the large holes, 1.250" between the small holes, and the 75 degree bend angle. The entire perimeter of the part can be off by 1/8" in any direction, and it still works.

Barney Gaylord
1958 MGA with an attitude - http://MGAguru.com
Notice: - Do not leave a PM for me on the forum server. Send any private message to my personal e-mail address barneymg@mgaguru.com

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Re: Original/Correct Horn Location? #20
PNodtvedt Paul Nodtvedt Mt. Pleasant, SC, USA 1960 MG MGA 1974 MG MGB GT 1976 Triumph TR6	Posted: December 31, 2011 03:35PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 535

A new bracket is born! I spent a little time this afternoon with my trusty angle grinder/cutter and strip sander and created a bracket for the optional hi-note horn to go on the driver's side under the valance panel. I used the existing passenger side bracket as a pattern (Barney - when I printed out your excellent drawing and laid the existing bracket on it, it wasn't quite 1:1 - probably a function of my printer) - the new one is on the right in the picture below. I don't have a brake capable of bending 1/8" steel, so had to resort to the old hammer and vise technique.

Probably the most amazing part of the whole fabrication exercise was that I ACTUALLY REMEMBERED TO BEND THE NEW BRACKET IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION!!

A little primer and black paint and we should be ready to mount some Windtones.

Paul

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