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hardened valve seats - update

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Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum Member Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"

Careful buying seats and then taking them to your machine shop, often times machinist have no idea what brand that seat is, and most machinist prefer provide their own seats. On a occasion I get calls from Moss, asking for tech advice, one was about valve seat inserts, I was told they were a high return item, I told them what I stated above, not long after that they removed from their inventory. Also seats are sold based on size, not make/model application, you easily have a situation where a standard seat insert would not be wide enough to make a proper repair, and seat with wider diameter would be used. Bottom line deal with a machine shop that install seat inserts on regular basis and let them take care of this for you.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Website: www.acmespeedshop.com
hapwaldrop@acmespeedshop.com


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Rod H. Avatar
Amity, OR, USA   USA
1964 MG MGB
1968 MG MGB GT

I got curious, and found that too. Also found that Aptfast has them for $5.75 each. Napa probably used some generic tractor engine seats or something in mine. They seem to work fine though!



I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones. John Cage

'63 MGB
'68 MGBGT
'80 VW Vanagon Kombi
'09 Mazda 3 with 5 speed manual

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larrym Avatar
larrym Silver Member Larry M
near Sacramento, CA, USA   USA
1963 MG MGB "Racer"
1968 Volkswagen 1600 "Manx"
i was just quoted $190 for hard seats on a head i have at the machinist now, that's in addition to the costs of tanking, magnaflux, etc

re: lead substitutes - they are NOT LEAD - 'nuff said

also - see ErnieY's post #12 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?1,2457989,2458247#msg-2458247

In reply to # 3679321 by Rod H. NAPA did the exhaust seats for the head I put on my GT for almost an absurdly low price. Was under $50 for parts and labor. Costs more now I'm sure, given it's been several years, but I can't see not doing it given all the advantages.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-11 06:24 PM by larrym.

Rick Fawthrop Avatar
Rick Fawthrop Gold Member Richard Fawthrop
Seattle, WA, USA   USA
As far back as I can remember my regular machine shop has had a Winona seat cutter and later a Serdi type machine.
There is a rack on the wall with the different size seats.
The rack gets refilled when the other consumables such as stones and cutters get ordered.
I think some people might be over complicating the process by suppling their own parts.
I think that the only time I had to bring in my own parts was for 1275 guides that the shop owner had no wish to stock.

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KUttech Avatar
KUttech Kirk Uttech
Lake Mills, Wis, USA   USA
1964 MG MGB "POS" NO MORE"
Example


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3B79F64C-A8EC-4956-91A3-EB2C0FA485A2.jpeg    67.5 KB
3B79F64C-A8EC-4956-91A3-EB2C0FA485A2.jpeg

Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum Member Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 3679459 by KUttech Example

And that's the only time it will look like that, coming from the machine shop. Oh ad those outside ridges on the OD that appear to make the seat look slightly recessed from them, are there before the seats are installed, so this further confuses folks.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Website: www.acmespeedshop.com
hapwaldrop@acmespeedshop.com


Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Free Tech Advice - VTO alloy wheels for British Sport Cars, and others
Lotus Avatar
Lotus Roy Hodgson
Villeneuve, VD, Switzerland   CHE
1974 MG MGB "Butterscotch"
If you need to do some head work then have hardened seats installed. If not the I suggest using an additive. Do they work? Little actual empirical evidence but they are cheap (even here eye popping smiley) and you use so little that a bottle can last a year. The PO of my B used the stuff and so did his PO and so am I. The car runs well so I will continue to use it.

If the stuff doesn't work and I must replace the seats so be it. If it does and I can get another 50,000 miles/Km/cubits/rods/chains/whatever out of the engine then I win.



The truth is mightier than the tweet

KUttech Avatar
KUttech Kirk Uttech
Lake Mills, Wis, USA   USA
1964 MG MGB "POS" NO MORE"
Hap
This is how I first saw the head after I took it off the block and cleaned it up slightly. I bead blasted it and packaged it. It will be on it's way to you this week, to be street ported and renewed.
Kirk

In reply to # 3679708 by Speedracer
In reply to # 3679459 by KUttech Example

And that's the only time it will look like that, coming from the machine shop. Oh ad those outside ridges on the OD that appear to make the seat look slightly recessed from them, are there before the seats are installed, so this further confuses folks.

Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum Member Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 3679779 by KUttech Hap
This is how I first saw the head after I took it off the block and cleaned it up slightly. I bead blasted it and packaged it. It will be on it's way to you this week, to be street ported and renewed.
Kirk

In reply to # 3679708 by Speedracer
In reply to # 3679459 by KUttech Example

And that's the only time it will look like that, coming from the machine shop. Oh ad those outside ridges on the OD that appear to make the seat look slightly recessed from them, are there before the seats are installed, so this further confuses folks.

Thanks Kirk, I will keep my eyes open for it.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Website: www.acmespeedshop.com
hapwaldrop@acmespeedshop.com


Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Free Tech Advice - VTO alloy wheels for British Sport Cars, and others
benhutcherson Avatar
benhutcherson Gold Member Ben Hutcherson
Louisville/Frankfort, KY, USA   USA
1970 MG MGB
Every machine shop I've talked to has wanted to/insisted on supply the seats.

To my understanding, they are more or less a generic stock item and the machinist would prefer to match the most appropriate size of his/her preferred brand and then lap the valve into it.

Every machine shop that I talked to was completely fine with me supplying valves-it saves them having to track down what might(for them) be an obscure part-but seats are a totally different matter.

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Motion Avatar
Motion Gold Member Dale Spooner
Danville, VA, USA   USA
1977 MG MGB
Valve seats are supplied in fractional sizes, with many exceptions for apps where a seat is made to replace an existing OE seat without any machining, just R and R. Seats that fit a B head are a size that any machine should have on the shelf. Sometimes I have to use a larger o.d. seat that usual, on either intake or exhaust, if the last few valve jobs have sunk the valves way below the floor. This loss of parent material would result in the outer edge of the seat standing proud of the floor, not the best heat sink scenario. So I have to go larger on the o.d. to prevent this. Some machine shops might be hesitant to go larger but it's not a problem on a B head, plenty of thickness there.


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LaVerne Avatar
LaVerne LaVerne Downey
Fruita, CO, USA   USA
1954 MG TF "Green Hornet"
1969 MG MGB
Pretty easy to see on this one smoking smiley


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2. #1 broken valve seat-bottom.jpg

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