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“Drop” spindles and front springs

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Thurlowb Avatar
Thurlowb Silver Member Brad Thurlow
Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
So.... if one uses drop spindles to lower the front end the then suspension geometry won’t be as screwed up as it would be if you just used lowering springs. Correct?

But then you end up lower, with good geometry and soft springs.

Is there a source of tall, stiff springs?

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ohlord Avatar
ohlord Gold Member Rob C
North of Seattle, N.W., USA   USA
1957 Land Rover Series I "EYEYIYI"
1971 MG MGB
1971 MG MGB "Bedouin 2"
Dave Headley
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Steve64B Avatar
Steve64B Steve Opitz
Phoenix, AZ, USA   USA
1966 MG MGB
Brad... X2 on checking with Dave H.

I think it's a three step process... dropped spindles, slightly shorter springs (for more lowering and slightly higher rate) and for weekend auto-X a bigger sway bar (for reducing roll)

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Thurlowb Avatar
Thurlowb Silver Member Brad Thurlow
Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
Thanks. I was just wondering if there was another spring option out there that I was missing.

My spindles are going to need to be replaced maybe next year. That got me thinking about getting a set of drops from Dave, but I didn't know what that would mean for springs. By then, I will have a decent collection of springs available to try out with them.

Brad

Steve64B Avatar
Steve64B Steve Opitz
Phoenix, AZ, USA   USA
1966 MG MGB
Brad,

I'm not sure if you saw the posts Lloyd Faust "balloonfoot" did on lowering a RBB to CBB a few years ago, but if you do an advanced search with his user name and variations of lower/lowering you can find it (it was a 2 or 3 part series.

There are more wrong ways to lower a B, then right ways and Lloyd did a pictures added "right way" to get a rubber bumper car down-to-earth without screwing up the geometry.

BTW: using drop spindles (in addition to Lloyds lowering) get's the front even lower and raises the front roll center which gives it's own set of benefits!

fast-MG.com Avatar
fast-MG.com Gold Member Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
I suggest to my drop spindle customers to install the spindles and evaluate ride height before changing springs.smoking smiley


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Dave Headley, dba FAB-TEK offers full service race car parts and preperation for MGB & MGA race cars, SCCA and Vintage. Dave is a mechanical engineer and has raced MGBs since 1963.
V8MGBV8 Avatar
V8MGBV8 Carl Floyd
Kinggsport, TN, USA   USA
Urban myth that shorter front springs screws up suspension geometry.

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fast-MG.com Gold Member Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
Not a myth if you go too short!moon


Member Services:
Dave Headley, dba FAB-TEK offers full service race car parts and preperation for MGB & MGA race cars, SCCA and Vintage. Dave is a mechanical engineer and has raced MGBs since 1963.
rocannon Avatar
rocannon Platinum Member Frank L
Inconveniently located in the wilderness, Oklahoma, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB GT "GT From Hell"
1980 MG MGB "Restored By Photoshop Inc."
Using only lowering springs affects the factory timing of lateral movement of the front wheels and their toe-in/out as they move through the range of suspension travel. On a street car this can make the car feel twitchy and magnify bump steer.



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V8MGBV8 Avatar
V8MGBV8 Carl Floyd
Kinggsport, TN, USA   USA
In reply to # 3641481 by rocannon Using only lowering springs affects the factory timing of lateral movement of the front wheels and their toe-in/out as they move through the range of suspension travel. On a street car this can make the car feel twitchy and magnify bump steer.

One to one & a half inch lower is still within the car's normal range of motion. It will not toe-out much. My car is low & I run toed-out. for track days, autox, and street. Not twitchy to me. Very little bump steer.

I'm not there yet, Dave. winking smiley

Thurlowb Avatar
Thurlowb Silver Member Brad Thurlow
Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
The above comments are exactly the conversation I had hoped for.

So the WORST thing you could do would be to shorten the stock springs. If you did that, you would end up lower, with a lot of soft travel. This would frequently get your suspension up to the very limits of range, creating bump steer at its worst.

By adding shorter, but much stiffer, springs you prevent the suspension from moving too much and therefore limit the negative effects of the new suspension position. But an extremely short and stiff spring would put the suspension right up to an extreme. The stiff spring would try to hold it there as much as it could, but any movement from there might be twitchy.

So...drop spindles with stock springs keeps your suspension in a nice, sweet spot, range of movement. However, that is too much movement for hard driving (ie autocross), so you end up a a combo of drop spindles and firmer springs tailored to create exactly the ride height you want/need while keeping the suspension in roughly the correct working position.

It’s a plan...
Brad

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fast-MG.com Avatar
fast-MG.com Gold Member Dave Headley
Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA   USA
Too much lowering with springs only significantly lowers roll center which (IMO) is too low to begin with.


Member Services:
Dave Headley, dba FAB-TEK offers full service race car parts and preperation for MGB & MGA race cars, SCCA and Vintage. Dave is a mechanical engineer and has raced MGBs since 1963.
glbishop Avatar
glbishop Gary Bishop
Spring Hill, FL, USA   USA
FYI, for those who don't know, removing active coils from a spring (shortening) makes it stiffer.

The spring constant, k, is increased.

So. Lowering by cutting and reforming a new dead coil does not result in "softer" suspension.

It becomes stiffer with less travel.

If you can't go with drop spindles the steering levers can be modified to correct for bump steer.

Thurlowb Avatar
Thurlowb Silver Member Brad Thurlow
Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada   CAN
In reply to # 3641689 by glbishop FYI, for those who don't know, removing active coils from a spring (shortening) makes it stiffer.

The spring constant, k, is increased.

So. Lowering by cutting and reforming a new dead coil does not result in "softer" suspension.

It becomes stiffer with less travel.

If you can't go with drop spindles the steering levers can be modified to correct for bump steer.


I did not know that. That is interesting.

Diver648 Gold Member Warren Siringer
Tucson, Arizona, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB
1967 MG MGB GT
1971 MG MGB GT
1974 MG MGB
Dave:

So using the Suplex road uprated 480 lb springs alone will cause a problem? How can a lower roll center cause a problem?

Warren

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