MGExp

MGB & GT Forum

Electric Water pump: experiences?

Moss Motors
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor
AutoShrine Sponsor

BFC Avatar
BFC Ben Clark
Allegan, Michigan, USA   USA
1980 MG MGB "Kilr B"
I'm going to have to pull my water pump to replace the gasket and it seems like an ideal time to switch to an electric water pump if I am going to do so. I am less interested in the reputed horsepower gain than in the more effective engine cooling and handling of heat soak. Davies Craig has a kit with their EWP80 pump, controller with LED screen and associated wiring.

I haven't seen anyone discuss electric water pumps lately. It looks like the last thread was in 2013. So...

Does anyone have any info on electric water pumps in the last 3-4 years? Has anyone installed one recently? What's your experience?



I don't know. It's always smoked like that/made that sound/done that.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
ohlord Avatar
ohlord Gold Member Rob C
North of Seattle, N.W., USA   USA
1957 Land Rover Series I "EYEYIYI"
1971 MG MGB
1971 MG MGB "Bedouin 2"
You won't notice it at all.
Seems like a classic gold cast iron is what's needed.

At 62hp you need a lot of changes that really make a difference in power
The water pump isn't one of them.



"I'm a long way gone down this wild road I'm on
It's gonna take me where I'm bound
It's a long way around"



"These are the days that must happen to you"

RD2 Radar/ Electronic Warfare Technician
Vietnam 1969-1972

Mustangsix Avatar
Mustangsix Gold Member Jack Collins
Orlando, FL, USA   USA
The electric pump was a great addition on one of my friend's drag car. We could run the pump and fan between rounds to keep things from heat soaking.

But on an MGB, I don't think there's any practical gain.


Member Services:
Ceres Motorsports - Specialty parts for select British Automobiles
course2kid Jeffrey Johnson
Fountain Valley, CA, USA   USA
1979 MG MGB "Lucy (Lucifer)"
I have to admit that I've never given water pumps much thought, but, I just looked over the Davies Craig website, and it does seem like they are a great idea. As you said, added horsepower, while nice, probably isn't the big selling point. I would think that having more cooling available at idle would be the best point for an MGB.

I didn't see anything on their site about fitment (other that the EWP80 being described as universal fit). I guess you have to compare the dimensions of their envelope drawing to an existing pump to make sure there aren't any clearance or mounting issues. You'll also have to consider how to axially align the aternator pully to the crank pulley.

They also don't explicitly discuss the existing thermostat. I'm guessing it should be removed and a blanking sleeve installed.

Being able to set a desired engine coolent temperature and having pump speed vary to maintain that set point should help some with emissions and may make the engine run a bit smoother.

EDIT: Just thinking about the fuel economy and horsepower perspectives... If you are getting, say 25mpg at highway cruising speeds and get a modest 4% fuel economy boost to 26mpg (DaviesCraig claims fuel economy gains of 3.5% to 10%), you'll save about 1.5 gallons for every 1,000 miles of highway cruising. So, if you drive 6000 miles per year and half of that is cruising, you'll save about $13/year based on gas at $2.75/gallon and the EWP system will pay for itself in about 19 years (assuming it costs $240 more than a classic gold pump). Higher gas prices, bigger fuel economy gains, or more highway cruising miles per year will reduce this payback period).

As for horsepower, you should see some improvement at highway cruising speeds since that is when the mechanical water pump is generally draining more horsepower than needed for adequate cooling. That might make passing other cars a bit easier.

As for around town acceleration, I wouldn't expect any noticeable improvement. When accelerating hard, the engine is generating peak torque for its given rpm and is therefore burning fuel and generating heat at a high rate, so, the mechanical water pump isn't really draining much more power than needed to supply adequate cooling to meet the instantaneous level of heat generation. Of course, the EWP pump speed will greatly lag the acceleration of the vehicle (since the coolant and engine have a lot of thermal mass), so, you might see some improvement in acceleration because the EWP won't spool up in the short time period while you are accelerating (allowing for less drag torque during that time frame).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 01:19 PM by course2kid.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
benhutcherson Avatar
benhutcherson Gold Member Ben Hutcherson
Louisville/Frankfort, Kentucky, USA   USA
1970 MG MGB
In reply to # 3608809 by course2kid I would think that having more cooling available at idle would be the best point for an MGB.

My "gut" is that electric fans(which the OPs car already have) do as much for that as an electric water pump would.

BFC Avatar
BFC Ben Clark
Allegan, Michigan, USA   USA
1980 MG MGB "Kilr B"
In reply to # 3608786 by ohlord You won't notice it at all.
Seems like a classic gold cast iron is what's needed.

At 62hp you need a lot of changes that really make a difference in power
The water pump isn't one of them.

Like I said, I don't expect any big improvement in horsepower. Several of the LS1 tuner sites have users who dyno'ed out with 8-10 horsepower, but the 1.8 MG engine is not an LS1, although it may weigh as much. Still, if I get 2hp from a water pump, 5hp from replacing the ZS carb with a pair of HIFs, 2hp from a better air filter, and 3hp from a big valve head I just improved horsepower 15% and I haven't really done anything yet. (Which is good, because I have a kid in college and would prefer not to drop real money on engine internals for a few more years!)

The big draw for me though, is that in combination with an electric fan (I replaced the two pushers with a single puller), I should be able to get stuck in summer traffic jams or run a bunch of stop and go errands in 95 degree heat without worrying about overheating or vapor lock or other heat-related issues. For about $300, it sounds like an okay idea as long as it is reliable enough for daily driving.



I don't know. It's always smoked like that/made that sound/done that.

Steve64B Avatar
Steve64B Steve Opitz
Phoenix, AZ, USA   USA
1966 MG MGB
Ben,

Going to an electric water pump is a GREAT addition. On a hot day when you're crawling in traffic, an electric water pump is moving the maximum amount of water through the system.

I have an EWP80, combined with an AL radiator and an electric fan which is in the Moss shroud. Even when it's 110* plus the temp gauge is solid at 180* and only rises to 190* in stop and go traffic.

This is a link to MED engineering, they make a water pump blanking plate that makes the installation a lot easier.


http://www.med-engineering.co.uk/products/ancillaries/cooling/water-pump-blanking-plate



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-10-12 01:57 PM by Steve64B.

BFC Avatar
BFC Ben Clark
Allegan, Michigan, USA   USA
1980 MG MGB "Kilr B"
Steve-
You're in Arizona, so you may not be able to answer this but... how does it affect the output of the heater? It looks like some folks have installed a small aux pump for the heater circuit.



I don't know. It's always smoked like that/made that sound/done that.

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
ohlord Avatar
ohlord Gold Member Rob C
North of Seattle, N.W., USA   USA
1957 Land Rover Series I "EYEYIYI"
1971 MG MGB
1971 MG MGB "Bedouin 2"
Unfortunately that isn't the way horsepoer is increased in increments.
They don't add in like that.
Compression,cam ,timing all need to be done.
15% not happening, 5 hp from carb changes, not happening. It will make it more responsive but don't expect a power gain .
On a LS1 they're looking at a gain of 2% or less with an electric pump
$45 for a quality water pump. Use the $250 left over towards a real engine in time.
If it's overheating on hot days and vapor lock or heat issues.You have other issues that need to be addressed
Spend time on solving them

In reply to # 3608844 by BFC
In reply to # 3608786 by ohlord You won't notice it at all.
Seems like a classic gold cast iron is what's needed.

At 62hp you need a lot of changes that really make a difference in power
The water pump isn't one of them.

Like I said, I don't expect any big improvement in horsepower. Several of the LS1 tuner sites have users who dyno'ed out with 8-10 horsepower, but the 1.8 MG engine is not an LS1, although it may weigh as much. Still, if I get 2hp from a water pump, 5hp from replacing the ZS carb with a pair of HIFs, 2hp from a better air filter, and 3hp from a big valve head I just improved horsepower 15% and I haven't really done anything yet. (Which is good, because I have a kid in college and would prefer not to drop real money on engine internals for a few more years!)

The big draw for me though, is that in combination with an electric fan (I replaced the two pushers with a single puller), I should be able to get stuck in summer traffic jams or run a bunch of stop and go errands in 95 degree heat without worrying about overheating or vapor lock or other heat-related issues. For about $300, it sounds like an okay idea as long as it is reliable enough for daily driving.



"I'm a long way gone down this wild road I'm on
It's gonna take me where I'm bound
It's a long way around"



"These are the days that must happen to you"

RD2 Radar/ Electronic Warfare Technician
Vietnam 1969-1972

oleanderjoe Avatar
oleanderjoe Silver Member Joseph Baba
Fresno, Ca, USA   USA
Have one "MOROSO UNIT" Chevy V8 I think on my Autocross car since about 1990. Not a direct bolt on, needs to be adapted but it has been flawless since than. It is reported to be OK for Hot Rod Street Use ???? Really don't know. I think for street use the regular Stock pump is fine, and reliable. Up to you. Cheers

. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <
Steve64B Avatar
Steve64B Steve Opitz
Phoenix, AZ, USA   USA
1966 MG MGB
Ben... yeah, in Arizona the function of the heater isn't a high priority!!!

The electric control unit allows you to dial in the temperature you want the unit to work to. So in summer you can dial it so the pump starts moving fluid at a lower temp so you don't run into heat sink problems. In winter dial it so the pump doesn't move fluid until a high temp for faster warmups and better heat output. Be sure and use a blanking sleeve if you take out the thermostat and use the pump to control temperature.

CMCon98 Colin C
Dedham, Massachusetts, USA   USA
An electric water pump with an electronic controller seems like needless complication on a street car that was designed around 1960. If your cooling system is in good shape and you're still having overheating problems, I'd suggest a bigger, aluminum radiator. The engine-driven water pump is probably not as efficient as a variable speed electric one, but it's almost foolproof. As long as there's coolant in the system and the belt is on, it's working. If it throws the belt, you notice right away when the no-charge light comes on. In modern cars with electric pumps, when the pump fails, it usually goes unnoticed by the driver (modern temp gauges are buffered, and don't rise above normal range unless the coolant temp is seriously elevated), the engine overheats very quickly and blows the head gasket(s). If you like to tinker, by all means have at it, but if you're thinking about an electric pump for functional reasons, I don't think you need it in a street car.

Ex-Calif Avatar
Ex-Calif Gold Member Dan D
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA   USA
1968 MG MGB GT "Bart - Yellow And Naughty"
1977 MG MGB "Red Betty"
2012 Jeep Liberty "Tank"
2014 Hyundai Accent "Skate"
There are a couple of parts to cooling but the key factor is heat transfer from the radiator to the atmosphere.

The electric fans on a radiator are good in that they keep airflow across the fins at all car speeds.

An electric pump will circulate the coolant at a consistent speed but...

I did a V8 swap in a Datsun pick up years ago. Messed around with cooling a lot. Turns out the coolant was circulating too fast and did not have sufficient dwell time in the radiator. I had to install a restrictor in the t/stat housing to slow the flow...

If I read correctly that the electric water pump is $300 then that would be lunacy for my budget. I've installed a new Classic Gold on one of mine and it works fine.

But it's your car and I say go for it!



The goal - Reliable summer driver interspersed with mechanical tinkering...
Motto - "Driving fifty in the twisties..."
On Mods - It's your damn car - Do what you want. Haters gonna hate...
On SUVs - Drive your B like a soccer mom is texting her friends about how she wants to kill you...
Red Betty - http://www.mgexp.com/registry/GHN5UH418165
Bart - http://www.mgexp.com/registry/GHD4U146898G

Steve64B Avatar
Steve64B Steve Opitz
Phoenix, AZ, USA   USA
1966 MG MGB
Ben,

With regards to the idea you can move coolant through the cooling system too quickly...

http://stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=11

In general a cooling system will overheat at low speed because there's not enough airflow through the radiator and/or low coolant flow through the water pump. The water over heats in the engine and then doesn't get adequate airflow through the radiator to cool it.

At high speed/load the system will overheat because the mechanical water pump creates enough pressure to overcome the relatively low pressure radiator caps speced on older cars and force coolant out of the system. The pressure loss lowers the boiling point enough to overheated the engine.

Controlling the engine temperature by controlling the pumping rate ensures better control of engine temperatures.

Speedracer Avatar
Speedracer Platinum Member Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   USA
1967 MG MGB Racecar "The Biscuit"
In reply to # 3608851 by Steve64B This is a link to MED engineering, they make a water pump blanking plate that makes the installation a lot easier.


http://www.med-engineering.co.uk/products/ancillaries/cooling/water-pump-blanking-plate

That is for a A Series engine, not a B series engine, because MED does A series stuff, not B Series stuff.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Website: www.acmespeedshop.com
hapwaldrop@acmespeedshop.com


Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Free Tech Advice - Alloy wheels for British Sport Cars,and others
. Hide banner ads & support this website by becoming a > Gold Supporting Member <

To add your reply, or post your own questions

Members Sign In   or   Create an Account

Registration is FREE and takes less than a minute!


Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Read the Forum Help (FAQ) or contact the webmaster