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Moss CSI Distributor

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Noble66 Avatar
Noble66 Gold Member Noble Bradford
Orlando, Florida, USA   USA
1964 MG MGB "Black Betty"
1969 MG MGC GT
1974 MG MGB "Whitey"

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Donthuis Avatar
Donthuis Don van Riet
Rijswijk, ZH, Netherlands   NLD
CSI is a further development of the successful 123 unit and contains a LED for setting the 10 degree basic setting. Once this is achieved select the advised curve associated with the B engine series number and only take one step lower if pinking occurs.

Ever afterwards forget it is there, short of programmable solutions they are deemed the best by many.
But one has to accept their high price of these units. eye rolling smiley MOSS is just a reseller here.....

PS CSI supplies them in 25D and 45D housings, with or without a vac unit (racers often do without)

Noble66 Avatar
Noble66 Gold Member Noble Bradford
Orlando, Florida, USA   USA
1964 MG MGB "Black Betty"
1969 MG MGC GT
1974 MG MGB "Whitey"
In reply to # 3541042 by Donthuis MOSS is just a reseller here.....

PS CSI supplies them in 25D and 45D housings, with or without a vac unit (racers often do without)

Now I'm going to have to check if CSI has a 25D6 for my MGC.

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PLGardner Avatar
PLGardner Peter Gardner
Stanley, North Carolina, USA   USA
1979 MG MGB
They have models for Austin Healey and Jag listed as 25D6...

ohlord Avatar
ohlord Gold Member Rob C
North of Seattle, N.W., USA   USA
1957 Land Rover Series I "EYEYIYI"
1971 MG MGB
1971 MG MGB "Bedouin 2"
$390 for a lot of unfounded claims

Get your 25D4 rebuilt recurved
set it once



"I'm a long way gone down this wild road I'm on
It's gonna take me where I'm bound
It's a long way around"



"These are the days that must happen to you"

RD2 Radar/ Electronic Warfare Technician
Vietnam 1969-1972

pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, Nova Scotia, Canada   CAN
Check out the CB Performance Blackbox before you plunk down your cash. It does more and costs less. I love mine. Made in the USA too.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 9psi boost, "stock" high ratio rocker arms, 8:1 compression, Piper 270 cam, ported head, matched manifolds, CB Performance computerized ignition.

tvrgeek Avatar
tvrgeek Silver Member Scott S
Bowie, Maryland, USA   USA
1965 MG MGB
1974 MG MGB GT
thumbs up on what Don said. The only issue I have is to look carefully at the advance curve and vacuum curve. For this reason I prefer the programmable 123-tune. The 123 will safely drive a 1.5 Ohm coil, so you get much stronger ignition. This means fewer miss-fires, easier cold starting etc. I do not know about the CSI current capability. The 123 switch based curves mimic the various stock curves, some are good, some are not. Check the CSI. With the tune, I can run higher idle advance, delay vacuum to over 1000 so ported vs manifold is not as big a difference, and peak maximum advance at max-peak-torque which is now pretty much the accepted preferred performance choice. None of the stock MG curves followed this. If your engine is non-stock, then the tune version is that much more flexible over the switched based one.

I liked my CB Black box too. The only concern I had was getting the phasing dead on with a locked distributor. I ran an Acuspark with mine. Comparing the two, I prefer the 123-tune. 123 or CSI are more plug and play. I like the built in timer in the 123 as I used it to time RPM to RPM acceleration to do somewhat objective on-road tuning. Not as good as an expert on a dyno, but a lot better than hearsay, forum "experts" or just seat of the pants. I was able to capture the data stream from the CB by Wireshark sniffing, add a clock from the PC and do RPM to RPM times. Much harder than the 123! ( I tuned using 2000 to 3500 RPM times). My result for my 65 has idle of 18 @ 850, maximum of 32 @ 3000, with 8 degrees of vac. I derived this on my 65 with the CB. It worked great in the 74 with the 123 and now is what I have with the 123 in the 65. I found the idle dip trick to work really slick, but only after it was fully warmed up. It made start and drive away warm up a bit less smooth. Maybe if any of my engines had a more perfect rebuild it would be more stable. I need to learn more about how best to bring in the vac.

As much as I prefer electronic ignitions, the advance curve is the most important parameter. A correctly curved points job form Jeff (expert on a dyno) will make you happier than the wrong curve in the best electronics. Of course, the best electronics with the best curve will still be superior.

For our resident "my way is the only way" expert who has not used any of these three products, better does not make stock bad, so save it.
.



Cogito ergo sum periculoso

Noble66 Avatar
Noble66 Gold Member Noble Bradford
Orlando, Florida, USA   USA
1964 MG MGB "Black Betty"
1969 MG MGC GT
1974 MG MGB "Whitey"
I understand those that like the points setup. They’re simple and mechanical (the points not the people). But I like electronic ignition and if it wasn’t an improvement they wouldn’t have put it on later MGBs and they’d still be using it in new cars today. I’m liking the CSI distributor because its programmable and it looks for the most part stock. I can’t program it with my phone while cruising on the highway but do I really need to do that? $370 is a bit steep but I’ll have a look at the CSI site to see if they have it for a cheaper.

I know there are some that look down on Pertronix and other electronic ignition systems but I like their consistency and easy maintenance. I just recently had one fail on me… after 12 years. Now you can’t tell me that you didn’t have to replace or maintain your points over 12 years (at 12k+ miles a year). You can’t tell me the little plastic nub that rubs on the cam didn’t wear down and you had to reset the gap or replace them. You can’t tell me you didn’t have to file the contact points because they got burnt or dirty. I’ve done all that. The most I had to do with the Pertronix was replace a worn rotor and put a drop of oil under the screw every once in a while. I’ll take electronic every time.

riley1489 Avatar
riley1489 Gold Member Bruce H
Great White North, QC, Canada   CAN
1953 Jaguar XK120
1959 Riley 1.5 "King George"
1973 MG MGB
Noble,
Posting here you will find all arguments pro and con, but then you knew that when you posted. winking smiley

Crystal clear to me that your mind is made. Go for it!
Cost/price doesn't/shouldn't come into the equation, when a product is what you want, need and think is a solution. My advice don't hesitate. thumbs up

Provide feedback when you receive it.

B



Check your ego Amigo!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-28 09:59 AM by riley1489.

B-racer Avatar
B-racer Jeff Schlemmer
Minnesota, USA   USA
No matter what distributor you use, the shaft bushings are important to the stability of your ignition signal. I know that Chinese housing the CSI uses - made in the same plant as the one Pertronix makes so I assume it has the same 17 grams of bronze bushings installed rather than the 67 grams that came in a real Lucas. The bushing is a sponge, as it holds oil for cold starts and releases oil as it warms up. More bushing = better lubrication and long term durability. Less bushing = a short life span and lower timing stability even though the electronics should mask it (they don't).

Why would they incorporate a mechanical vacuum advance Don? I thought the whole point was digital control? Do you mean they incorporate a MAP sensor to allow for load based control as well as rpm based timing control?



jeff@advanceddistributors.com

Donthuis Avatar
Donthuis Don van Riet
Rijswijk, ZH, Netherlands   NLD
You have to ask CSI on this vac option, I only know they offer units with vac. Probably they couple some vac diaphragm to a variable electronic component? Having a mechanical vac advance system would be illogical.

Indeed these bushings, especially on 25D units are very sturdy. I was surprised by the minor play found by me on very old 2nd hand units once on a parts fair. But with the largest sideways force on these spindles removed in case of electronics inside bushing may be less of a concern

PS Once again: personally I find CSI fine but too expensive and prefer a mechanical dizzy with Accuspark in. 45D now, but if I find a better 25D....



In reply to # 3541496 by B-racer No matter what distributor you use, the shaft bushings are important to the stability of your ignition signal. I know that Chinese housing the CSI uses - made in the same plant as the one Pertronix makes so I assume it has the same 17 grams of bronze bushings installed rather than the 67 grams that came in a real Lucas. The bushing is a sponge, as it holds oil for cold starts and releases oil as it warms up. More bushing = better lubrication and long term durability. Less bushing = a short life span and lower timing stability even though the electronics should mask it (they don't).

Why would they incorporate a mechanical vacuum advance Don? I thought the whole point was digital control? Do you mean they incorporate a MAP sensor to allow for load based control as well as rpm based timing control?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-28 10:04 AM by Donthuis.

B-racer Avatar
B-racer Jeff Schlemmer
Minnesota, USA   USA
With a quick Google search, it seems they use a mechanical vac unit to operate an electronic distributor. I guess they aren't aware of how simply a MAP signal can be converted instead? Or maybe its not expensive enough to cover the extra $5-7 in parts and labor? Or maybe there's no processor to handle the conversion. Either way, its only a partial solution to eliminating mechanical components and making it programmable. You still have a one-size-fits-all vac unit to contend with.



jeff@advanceddistributors.com

ohlord Avatar
ohlord Gold Member Rob C
North of Seattle, N.W., USA   USA
1957 Land Rover Series I "EYEYIYI"
1971 MG MGB
1971 MG MGB "Bedouin 2"
They are apparently satisfied with medioracty and mind once a year(If that for most of them) simple points maintenance.



"I'm a long way gone down this wild road I'm on
It's gonna take me where I'm bound
It's a long way around"



"These are the days that must happen to you"

RD2 Radar/ Electronic Warfare Technician
Vietnam 1969-1972

pinkyponk Avatar
pinkyponk Gold Member Adrian Page
Berwick, Nova Scotia, Canada   CAN
Do you think they're actually moving a plate with the electronics on it like a mechanical distributor? As near as I can see from googling it, it's not even really programmable. You just get to choose from 16 generic curves. You can program some versions of the 123 distributor I think... which seems very similar. I'd shop pretty carefully at this price point... and try to get the most functionality per dollar.

Adrian



Home built Eaton M62 Supercharger with 9psi boost, "stock" high ratio rocker arms, 8:1 compression, Piper 270 cam, ported head, matched manifolds, CB Performance computerized ignition.

ohlord Avatar
ohlord Gold Member Rob C
North of Seattle, N.W., USA   USA
1957 Land Rover Series I "EYEYIYI"
1971 MG MGB
1971 MG MGB "Bedouin 2"
You assume a lot Scotty, all wrong.
I've worked with , ran,installed them and more.
Never bought them just helped people that did.
Most have since removed

Unlike you and your non running first MGB
They all ran after a fashion eye popping smiley

Good luck with your tuning issues and multitude of misfires as they continue on into your 3rd yearthumbs up

In reply to # 3541349 by tvrgeek thumbs up on what Don said. The only issue I have is to look carefully at the advance curve and vacuum curve. For this reason I prefer the programmable 123-tune. The 123 will safely drive a 1.5 Ohm coil, so you get much stronger ignition. This means fewer miss-fires, easier cold starting etc. I do not know about the CSI current capability. The 123 switch based curves mimic the various stock curves, some are good, some are not. Check the CSI. With the tune, I can run higher idle advance, delay vacuum to over 1000 so ported vs manifold is not as big a difference, and peak maximum advance at max-peak-torque which is now pretty much the accepted preferred performance choice. None of the stock MG curves followed this. If your engine is non-stock, then the tune version is that much more flexible over the switched based one.

I liked my CB Black box too. The only concern I had was getting the phasing dead on with a locked distributor. I ran an Acuspark with mine. Comparing the two, I prefer the 123-tune. 123 or CSI are more plug and play. I like the built in timer in the 123 as I used it to time RPM to RPM acceleration to do somewhat objective on-road tuning. Not as good as an expert on a dyno, but a lot better than hearsay, forum "experts" or just seat of the pants. I was able to capture the data stream from the CB by Wireshark sniffing, add a clock from the PC and do RPM to RPM times. Much harder than the 123! ( I tuned using 2000 to 3500 RPM times). My result for my 65 has idle of 18 @ 850, maximum of 32 @ 3000, with 8 degrees of vac. I derived this on my 65 with the CB. It worked great in the 74 with the 123 and now is what I have with the 123 in the 65. I found the idle dip trick to work really slick, but only after it was fully warmed up. It made start and drive away warm up a bit less smooth. Maybe if any of my engines had a more perfect rebuild it would be more stable. I need to learn more about how best to bring in the vac.

As much as I prefer electronic ignitions, the advance curve is the most important parameter. A correctly curved points job form Jeff (expert on a dyno) will make you happier than the wrong curve in the best electronics. Of course, the best electronics with the best curve will still be superior.

For our resident "my way is the only way" expert who has not used any of these three products, better does not make stock bad, so save it.
.



"I'm a long way gone down this wild road I'm on
It's gonna take me where I'm bound
It's a long way around"



"These are the days that must happen to you"

RD2 Radar/ Electronic Warfare Technician
Vietnam 1969-1972



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-28 04:30 PM by ohlord.

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