Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... : MGB & GT Forum : MG Experience Forums : The MG Experience

Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #1
bobmunch Bob Muenchausen PC, Oregon, USA 1968 MG MGB GT "Traveler"	Posted: July 13, 2012 02:19PM Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 11,521

An interesting take on how to bring back, to some extent, original one part finishes as many cars from our car's era have. Most of us, I think, have done things of a different nature and been well enough satisfied with the result.

However, I place this before you knowing that it is, to some extent, a bit of plugola, but also that it is very similar to approaches I have seen from other quarters which used similar but differing brands of materials to essentially accomplish the same thing. What I found worthwhile was simply that the author took the time and effort to expand on many facets of what he had done and why and seemed relatively honest about what one could expect from a tired old original finish.

Not everyone can afford or wants to do a totally new paint job. For those lucky souls who have found cars in nearly their original state with only minor blemishes, this could be something to consider. If your car has more problems than those that the author discusses for this article, you are probably better off to spend you time rectifying those issues and applying new paint. JMO

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.
Nietzsche

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 11:29PM by bobmunch.

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #2
balloonfoot Lloyd Faust New Mexico, USA 1964 Porsche C Coupe 1967 MG MGB "MAX" 1985 Chevrolet Corvette "EASY 1ST" 1986 Chevrolet Corvette "Gas Mileage Special" 1989 Chevrolet Camaro ""I Rock""	Posted: July 13, 2012 03:05PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 8,265

Bob...interesting take on things.

I often spend more time trying to make a car look original than it would take to simply start from scratch and redo it.
Example: I just bought an IROC convertible. It is still in original black paint, but the parts that were added when the car was converted into a convertible (rear spoiler, deck lid and top hatch) have faded from the sun. Luckily these parts can be removed and painted off the car with no problem. The under hood and under car parts will need to be carefully cleaned and massaged. I feel there is quite an art to this type of thing......

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”.
- Abraham Lincoln

"Anyone with an intense emotional interest in a subject loses the ability to observe it objectively: You selectively perceive events. You ignore data and facts that disagree with your main philosophy. Even your memory works to fool you, as you selectively retain what you believe in, and subtly mask any memories that might conflict."

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #3
Kevin McGrath Sault Ste Marie,Ontario, Canada 1969 MG MGB MkII	Posted: July 13, 2012 06:23PM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 81

Cant seem to find the article.........which part of the forumn is it on pls.

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #4
Be Coming Kelvin Dodd So. Calif., USA 1957 MG MGA 1957 MG MGA Coupe 1958 MG Magnette 1959 MG MGA 1962 Morgan 4 Seater → more	Posted: July 13, 2012 06:43PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 4,654

It's in the How To Articles listing.

I had to go and look for it too.

Good stuff. I'm going to be saving the original paint on my 67 GT.

Classic Motorsports did a good article on saving original paint when Tim's TR3 race car was freshened up. Some of the car had to be re-painted and the new paint blended to the old.

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #5
jameslo James L Southlake, TX, USA 1979 MG MGB	Posted: July 13, 2012 07:20PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 69

Good lord, if that article was put on film, it would be a 9 part mini-series with 3 spin-offs and and a 3-part prequel coming out right after it all.

It would take longer to read the article than to restore the paint!

I think he's trying to say use Mequire's #7 on a clean car, micro fiber towel, clay bar, wax...

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #6
balloonfoot Lloyd Faust New Mexico, USA 1964 Porsche C Coupe 1967 MG MGB "MAX" 1985 Chevrolet Corvette "EASY 1ST" 1986 Chevrolet Corvette "Gas Mileage Special" 1989 Chevrolet Camaro ""I Rock""	Posted: July 13, 2012 07:24PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 8,265

In reply to # 2119348 by jameslo I think he's trying to say use Mequire's #7 on a clean car, micro fiber towel, clay bar, wax...

that about covers it.......

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”.
- Abraham Lincoln

"Anyone with an intense emotional interest in a subject loses the ability to observe it objectively: You selectively perceive events. You ignore data and facts that disagree with your main philosophy. Even your memory works to fool you, as you selectively retain what you believe in, and subtly mask any memories that might conflict."

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #7
bobmunch Bob Muenchausen PC, Oregon, USA 1968 MG MGB GT "Traveler"	Posted: July 13, 2012 11:34PM Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 11,521

Sorry, gave you the wrong link. http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/25304-secret-removing-oxidation-restoring-show-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html

Most authors assume a lot of their readers, I don't think this guy does - perhaps that is why this is so long. Nonetheless, one does have to understand the materials involved, and restoring the finish to old car paints in not the same as restoring other sorts of materials, nor is it easy to generalize. We've changed the nature of our coatings so often in the last 100 yrs., there is a bit to consider and also a bit to educate younger folks about who have no familiarity with the materials from the days of yore.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.
Nietzsche

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #8
balloonfoot Lloyd Faust New Mexico, USA 1964 Porsche C Coupe 1967 MG MGB "MAX" 1985 Chevrolet Corvette "EASY 1ST" 1986 Chevrolet Corvette "Gas Mileage Special" 1989 Chevrolet Camaro ""I Rock""	Posted: July 14, 2012 07:39AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 8,265

A picture is worth a 1000 words...this is all you need to know....

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”.
- Abraham Lincoln

"Anyone with an intense emotional interest in a subject loses the ability to observe it objectively: You selectively perceive events. You ignore data and facts that disagree with your main philosophy. Even your memory works to fool you, as you selectively retain what you believe in, and subtly mask any memories that might conflict."

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #9
bobmunch Bob Muenchausen PC, Oregon, USA 1968 MG MGB GT "Traveler"	Posted: July 16, 2012 12:34AM Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 11,521

OK, I stand corrected. This IS what it boils down to, I guess.
Interesting to me is the clay is labeled "aggressive". Do they have a "less aggressive" version too? I have not seen this clay on the shelves in my area is why I ask.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.
Nietzsche

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #10
balloonfoot Lloyd Faust New Mexico, USA 1964 Porsche C Coupe 1967 MG MGB "MAX" 1985 Chevrolet Corvette "EASY 1ST" 1986 Chevrolet Corvette "Gas Mileage Special" 1989 Chevrolet Camaro ""I Rock""	Posted: July 16, 2012 08:11AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 8,265

In reply to # 2121256 by bobmunch Interesting to me is the clay is labeled "aggressive". Do they have a "less aggressive" version too?

Yes, there is a "mild" version. I think more aggressive clay means less aggressive arm pressure....a consideration for old arms after you've done one side of the car.

Acutally once you've done it and if you park inside, you won't need to do that all the time. If you begin to put some #7 on and notice that the surface isn't completely smooth....then you need to clay again. Not the same as rubbing compund...doesn't remove much paint.

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”.
- Abraham Lincoln

"Anyone with an intense emotional interest in a subject loses the ability to observe it objectively: You selectively perceive events. You ignore data and facts that disagree with your main philosophy. Even your memory works to fool you, as you selectively retain what you believe in, and subtly mask any memories that might conflict."

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #11
Simon Simon Clowes Salem , Oregon, USA 1979 MG MGB "Big Red"	Posted: July 16, 2012 08:18AM Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 7,512

Mmmmmm, I'll try that on the faded paint on Red.

1979 Roadster (Big Red) daily driver.
unknown GT somewhere in the future.
09 Accent

Don't got to bed made - stay up all night plotting revenge

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #12
bobmunch Bob Muenchausen PC, Oregon, USA 1968 MG MGB GT "Traveler"	Posted: July 16, 2012 09:40AM Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 11,521

Also, Lloyd, how much better do you like Vinylex than ArmorAll? I've used Armorall since it first came out in LA back in the early 70s and have had reasonably good luck with it. But I also believe that time and even progress marches on and that there can be better stuff than what we used 40 yrs ago no matter what it is. The rubber window and door gaskets I soaked in ArmorAll for a year or more in the late 80s for my GT's refurb has held up remarkably well, but I'd like to know what experience other folks have had with products like Vinylex, etc. Thanks!

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.
Nietzsche

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #13
balloonfoot Lloyd Faust New Mexico, USA 1964 Porsche C Coupe 1967 MG MGB "MAX" 1985 Chevrolet Corvette "EASY 1ST" 1986 Chevrolet Corvette "Gas Mileage Special" 1989 Chevrolet Camaro ""I Rock""	Posted: July 16, 2012 10:54AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 8,265

Bob....I prefer Vinlex....it looks better....not like you just, well, dipped the part in ArmorAll for lack of a better way to say it.

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”.
- Abraham Lincoln

"Anyone with an intense emotional interest in a subject loses the ability to observe it objectively: You selectively perceive events. You ignore data and facts that disagree with your main philosophy. Even your memory works to fool you, as you selectively retain what you believe in, and subtly mask any memories that might conflict."

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #14
Edd Weninger Overgaard AZ or H. Bch. CA, USA	Posted: July 16, 2012 11:27AM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 576

I've never tried the clay stuff.

I have, however brought back the shine on several cars the old fashioned way, color sanding. Palm sander, wet with 1600 then 2000 grit, I used two of the 9 3M compounds to buff out the sanding swirl, then wax, and final buff.

The staff guys at a professional auto paint store in Costa Mesa provided the advice and suggestions for what to use. They did well.

My CBX has only seen Armorall since new. Paint, rubber, plastic gauge housings, side covers, seat, etc. All still in excellent condition.

Lloyd, you were supposed to buff off the Armorall to avoid the 'wet' look.

On tires, I use old brake fluid lightly, the stuff left in the can that's been sitting on the shelf for a year or so. Rubber likes it and I like the look better than any of the stuff sold for that purpose.

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #15
bobmunch Bob Muenchausen PC, Oregon, USA 1968 MG MGB GT "Traveler"	Posted: July 16, 2012 04:48PM Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 11,521

In reply to # 2121503 by balloonfoot Bob....I prefer Vinlex....it looks better....not like you just, well, dipped the part in ArmorAll for lack of a better way to say it.

LOL!!! I know what you mean. Like they were just dipped in Wesson oil. My rubber parts ceased looking like that about 6 mos. out of the bags they'd been stored in and on the car. However, what I have noticed is that those same parts have endured remarkably well in comparison to the OE stuff I'd taken off. The old stuff was well rotted and full of lengthwise cracks and well oxidized into a permanent brown state. The ones I soaked have so far escaped those fates altho I would not say that they look anything like new either. Just dull black until another application of preservative.

I am wondering about the preservative qualities as well as appearance. Not so much for me (hell, all my stuff is well aged and beyond hope) as just bringing the conversation about such things to those who are just now starting the cycle with new rubber bits. I would think that at least a few folks here might have an interest in the preservative qualities of these products.

I will have to pick up a bottle of Vinylex and do some long term exposure testing of my own.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.
Nietzsche

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #16
sicklyscott Scott Ring Metuchen, NJ, USA 1978 MG MGB ~ For Sale ! ~	Posted: July 16, 2012 08:12PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 107

When restoring the paint on my 78 I went for an abrasive m205 and pad. I wish I saw this first. I'm going to have to give it a shot this week.

Scott - '78 MGB - Brooklyn Green / Black interior (converted from champagne)

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #17
jseal Jonathan Seal Budapest, Budapest, Hungary 1964 MG MGB 1969 MG MGB GT	Posted: July 16, 2012 09:57PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 573

I have the Porter Cable dual action orbital buffer. It works very, very well.

The Meguiars products are numbered by abrasiveness. The lowest are the most abrasive. You can fine tune your choice based on your project.

I don't think that this is a one-size fits all approach. I find that each car has its own needs. For example, if the paint is ok/good, then using a clay bar makes sense to remove the dirt in the paint. If the the paint is in rough condition, then go straight to the more abrasive products and pads. Clay bars work very well on 2 stage paints.

Interesting note about metallic paints. When I was using the PC on an old silver metallic paint job, I was surprised how much black came out.

I am always impressed how much 'life' you can bring back to old paint (with enough time , effort and proper tools).

With proper/regular maintenance, paint can last a long, long time.

There are even some guys out there that spend many, many hours buffing off old paint to bring it down the original paint underneath. I think its a VW crowd thing, but am not sure.

That guy did an impressive job in resurrecting the paint of that old car - it went from being a dull & faded, ugly old Lincoln to a very shiny, ugly old Lincoln.

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Re: Interesting approach to restoring original finishes... #18
davester Dave Diamond Berkeley, California, USA 1971 MG MGB GT	Posted: July 17, 2012 12:37AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,311

I agree with Jonathan. It depends a lot on the paint. I don't buy that an ancient product like Meguiar's #7 is the key to restoring all old paint. I recently went at my very oxidized GT using a Porter Cable DA buffer, and Meguiar's Ultimate Polish, a more modern successor to #7 with a little added cutting action. After doing a small test area it was quite apparent that while it brought up the shine some it wasn't nearly aggressive enough to correct the paint which still had swirls and cloudiness. I laid down some masking tape and then did an adjacent test area with Meguiar's Ultimate Compound with a more aggressive pad, followed by polish. The difference was dramatic. All swirls and oxidation gone, deep color. My wife took a look and couldn't believe it. A polish like #7 is only going to work when there are no swirls and the paint if primarily suffering from being dried out. It won't do a thing to help heavy oxidation. I also think that the new tech compounds with their diminishing abrasives are vastly better than the rubbing and polishing compounds of the past. Some folks swear by the old stuff, but in my opinion it is foolish to forgo obvious advances in auto finishing products.

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