Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair : MGB & GT Forum : MG Experience Forums : The MG Experience

Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #1
saanich2006 Robert Browning Atlanta, Georgia, USA 1968 Chevrolet Corvette 1973 MG MGB	Posted: June 20, 2012 09:12PM Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 1,787

I have been cleaning bolts this evening and I was just wondering, "When do you, or what makes the decision for you, as to whether you replace a bolt, verses cleaning it, running a die on it, and maybe repainting?"

I know cleaning a bolt with a wire brush sometimes takes the zinc coating off and the bolts rust sooner if they are not painted.

So, where is, or what is the magic line or point?

Just wondering if I am the only one that will spend hours cleaning and painting bolts?

I will admit that I generally am fairly free about replacing nuts, especially locking nuts.

"He had delusions of adequacy."

Law of Mechanical Repair - After your hands become coated with grease, your nose will begin to itch and you'll have to pee.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #2
MGB567 Barrie Braxton Sunshine Coast, Australia 1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"	Posted: June 20, 2012 10:00PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 5,304

No point asking me! I started out replacing with what little UNF I could find here but in ss (I'm on the coast now) then I found out that ordinary ss is a bit brittle. So I became infatuated with ARP (6 point not 12 point) so I replaced all the 1/4", 5/16' and 3/8" with their sooper-dooper ss bolts and nyloc nuts. PS I kept the o/e incase it ever has to go back to o/e but I only degreased them - they're in an airtight container now. And I had the heads of thicker bolts chromed (but not the shafts). Shouldn't have responded should I!

CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67 owned since 3/77. Undergoing nut and bolt restoration. Tartan Red (now). 18GB +40 balanced with almost all new internals. Peter Burgess big valve fast road head. Piper 285. TT exhaust. ARP everywhere. 123 ign. Needham 4synchro c/r box. Stock rebuilt/replaced suspension. Superpro bushes. New brakes all round including all pipes in SS flex. Interior redone. CAMS approved roll bar and side bars. Lots more. Hybrid of o/e and show/fast road car. Not for sale - it's my toy!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2012 10:23PM by MGB567.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #3
mac townsend Fairfield, CA, USA	Posted: June 20, 2012 10:13PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 18,082

If I have them on hand, I'll use new. In some cases I'll want stainless or even brass (for around the brake pedal housing, for instance...corrosion resistance.) In others, chrome (like the shift lever ring, powder coated black with chromed allens holding it down).

If I don't have new on hand, I'll just hit the old with brake cleaner, run the threads and use it. Unless it's a mess. THEN I may drive to the hardware store. Prices are steep, but at least they do have grade 5 fine thread cap screws (Orchard Supply Hardware, a unit of Sears-Kmart).

I'm not fussy for "originality" so cost and ready availability is the reason I'll re-use if I do. Hitting all used threaded pieces with a tap or die is essential.

thinking of getting a rotating "rock polisher" to clean old bits then sort them into some sort of something so finding them is easier. Rotating because it's cost and power use is a small fraction of the vibratory. Half thinking of one of the home zinc plating kits.

1973 Roadster. A nice 50-footer!
SUs, Datsun 5-speed
MGB Tips and Tricks: www.mgrescue.com

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #4
Ogre1 Allan Ogilvie Melbourne Victoria, Australia 1977 MG MGB "Greenb"	Posted: June 20, 2012 10:14PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,338

If i'm going to re-use a bolt like some of the special shouldered bolts. I will just degrease it and put if back. They come up pretty good when they are clean. You can send them out to be re plated but I find a UNF handy pack to be able to replace most bolts on the car other than suspension, brakes, prop shaft etc. But even these can have their nuts changed with new nylocks.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #5
fast-MG.com Dave Headley Cortez, 4 corners, Colorado, USA	Posted: June 21, 2012 08:45AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 3,221

On my builds for customers, I always replace with new plated stuff. Cheaper than the labor cost to clean, no liability/disatisfaction issue with "old" used bolts and they look consistently nice. I have a good source for high quality nuts and bolts in bulk. smileys with beer

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #6
bleteaches6 lee orphan Sumner, WA, USA 1956 MG MGA 1500 1979 MG MGB Limited Edition (LE) 1979 MG Midget 1500	Posted: June 21, 2012 09:42AM Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 6,956

You can always collect and send out your old bolts for cleaning and replating.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #7
Paul S. Paul Simeone Connecticut, USA 1974 MG MGB GT	Posted: June 21, 2012 10:34AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 57

It's almost impossible to find a Cadmium plater in my area. I've been cleaning and degreasing in Gunk and/or brake cleaner and replating with an Eastwood zinc plating kit. Works well, is fast and looks like cad.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #8
pinkyponk Adrian Page Nova Scotia Canada, Canada 1971 MG MGB GT 1973 MG MGB MkIII	Posted: June 21, 2012 10:49AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,720

If they are in good shape and in a place they will show I re-plate them: http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?1,1958070,1958070#msg-1958070

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #9
Jim1971 Jim Smith Cassidy, BC, Canada	Posted: June 21, 2012 11:05AM Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 5,629

I went to the Fastenal down the street and bought bags of garde 8 bolts with matching flat and lock washers. Speciality bolts I cleaned up with the wire wheel and reused. For the unrestorable fasteners I bought new ones from one of the usual suspect MG parts suppliers.
The only ones hard to find were the 4 little screws (MOSS #458-550) that are on the side vents holding that front finish trim on.

Jim...Nanaimo, BC
1971 MGB collector
1975 MGB driver
1975 MGB in pieces waiting for V6
2005 Mini Cooper

A wise man overhauls his brakes before his engine.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #10
bcodegard38 Ben Odegard Livermore, CA, USA 1972 MG MGB	Posted: June 21, 2012 11:12AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 278

Cd is no longer used as a plating to prevent rust on steel fasteners. Zn is the favored plating. At moderate temperatures, Cd can embrittle some steel alloys. The aircraft industry used Cd plated low alloy, high strength bolts to attach jet engines to the wing structures. Scary to think about it. Cd is also toxic for the poor guys doing the plating. Zn works great.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #11
NewBRG72B Rodney McLain Greenville SC, USA 2001 Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class "The SLK" 2004 Volvo V70 "The Wagon" 2008 Mercedes-Benz E320 "The Diesel"	Posted: June 21, 2012 11:24AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 786

If the bolt and/or nut is crapola, I get new ones at Fastenal, otherwise I reuse them. The LBC oil leaks do a wonderful job of preserving hardware if it is in the right place. cool smiley

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #12
pburchins Patrick B Atlanta, GA, USA 1976 MG MGB "Spalding"	Posted: June 21, 2012 11:47AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 519

Robert,

I just take some CLR (calcium,lime and rust) mixed with water in a laundry detergent bottle. Put the bolts,nuts and washers in close the cap and shake for a few minutes. let it sit about 5 minutes and pour into a plastic colander and bowl. (Pour the solution back into the detergent bottle for later use) I then rinse the bolts with water. I have another jug with Purple Power and Water and do the same process ending with rinsing. Lay a towel down and dry them off completely. In fact, I run a fan over it.

Then cull through the bolts to see what is good and what is not. If you want to paint them then screw or push them into foam or cardboard and spray what color you need. If you choose to leave them the same color then I would coat them with a rust prohibitor such as LPS 3 (made in Tucker, GA!) If the bolts are out and visible for judging eyes then go to fastenal and get new ones. smiling smiley

I hope this helps. This will never match up to what Adrian does (Adrian, that is pretty cool)however, it works perfect for nuts and bolts hidden away and under the car.

Best of luck!

Patrick

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #13
the omega man phil wilkins staffordshire, United Kingdom 1973 MG MGB GT	Posted: June 21, 2012 12:12PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,693

They are generally so cheap to buy,it does'nt seem right somehow to buy a new part and fix it using the old bolts.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #14
costerhus Chris Osterhus Pittsburgh, USA 1970 MG MGB GT	Posted: June 21, 2012 01:48PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 942

It depends on what the bolt in question is holding together. By that, I mean...is it holding down the wooden floor the back of my GT? Or, is it holding part of the suspension together? If it's the floor, I don't see a problem with reusing an old bolt. There's no point in buying a new one--floor bolts don't suffer from fatigue. The suspension is another story. Those bolts see all sorts of stress and corrosion. I plan on fitting new Grade 8, since I have no idea what was there originally. Sure, the caliper bolts are marked...but nothing else seems to be. Not taking any chances in other words!

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #15
chris Chris Roop Pendleton, OR, USA	Posted: June 21, 2012 09:56PM Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 30,235

I used to clean and reuse everything so I could have the bolt heads with original markings. Tom B came on one day years ago and allowed as how he dropped all used stuff to the floor and restored using all new fasteners. Gary Lloyd and I were amazed, wishing we could be there to sweep up. In the past years, I have rethought Tom's wisdom.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #16
Dave Braun Minnesota, USA 1952 MG TD "Tommy" 1970 MG MGB "Maggie" 1974 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Sammy"	Posted: June 22, 2012 12:34AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 1,985

Tommy is put together with 95% original fasteners, all either silver cad plated or painted. Of course almost every fastener on him is BSF (British Standard Fine) or Mad Metric (metric threads with Whitworth heads).

Maggie is put together with 90% original fasteners, all either zinc plated with a blue chromate finish, or painted. Including the posidrive screws and the pointed hex head screws.

I like the old head markings. And I can zinc plate at home, thanks to Adrian's generosity in sharing his ideas on plating on this forum.

warmly,
dave

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #17
pinkyponk Adrian Page Nova Scotia Canada, Canada 1971 MG MGB GT 1973 MG MGB MkIII	Posted: June 22, 2012 06:31AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,720

I have done the same as Dave. 95% original bolts. I too like the head markings. BTW, the head markings mean the same thing as our head markings... they denote the grade of the bolt. Some are light duty and some are much more robust. It just depends on where they were used.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #18
nutman79 Jeff Hoering ?, USA 1977 MG MGB "Mistress"	Posted: June 22, 2012 07:12AM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 342

zn yellow or blue is standard for plating.hydrogen embrittlement will cause bolts to fracture. because hydrogen is trapped in the plating process.one fix is to bake the bolts for 6 or 8 hours to release the hydrogen.any bolt that is reused could be stretched past is tension rating.replace if you are not sure.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #19
pinkyponk Adrian Page Nova Scotia Canada, Canada 1971 MG MGB GT 1973 MG MGB MkIII	Posted: June 22, 2012 07:32AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 2,720

According to the manufacturer of the products, the zinc plating process I use does not cause hydrogen embrittlement. That appears to be a factor in chrome plating.

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Re: Bolts - When Do You Replace vs Clean & Repair #20
MGB567 Barrie Braxton Sunshine Coast, Australia 1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"	Posted: June 22, 2012 08:11AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 5,304

http://www.finishing.com/303/28.shtml

WRT Adrian's post above (#21) here's some reading about embrittlement if you're interested (but you have to drop down to where I got involved for bolts).

CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67 owned since 3/77. Undergoing nut and bolt restoration. Tartan Red (now). 18GB +40 balanced with almost all new internals. Peter Burgess big valve fast road head. Piper 285. TT exhaust. ARP everywhere. 123 ign. Needham 4synchro c/r box. Stock rebuilt/replaced suspension. Superpro bushes. New brakes all round including all pipes in SS flex. Interior redone. CAMS approved roll bar and side bars. Lots more. Hybrid of o/e and show/fast road car. Not for sale - it's my toy!

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