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just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken

Posted by joem

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #21
Shiprobo David Robinson Sydney, Australia 1967 MG MGB "Nigel"	Posted: April 12, 2012 07:02PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 56

Hi Joseph,

I must admit to not being an expert on these cars, but your problem sounds like an issue I have had at times with my '67. Basically these cars need three things to run, air, spark and fuel, take anyone away and you will have a problem. Now I am focusing on these because you state that the car has been running and that when running an at idle you need to keep the revs up or it stalls. In my car I have found that dirty air cleaner elements can be an issue. You haven't said what type of carb you are running, however try removing the air cleaner and then starting - if that makes a difference then replace the air cleaner elements with new ones (not expensive) and see how you go - not a big job at all. If the car has been sitting around and there has been some moisture in the air, then the air cleaners can get damp, collect dust and become choked. In my car I have had the problem simply stop the car as I drive along! Soon as I replace the filters I get better airflow, better performance and better idle.

Hope this gives you another thing to try! Whatever you do though don't give up. When I got my MG a few years ago, I had no idea how to even change oil, now I have no problem taking the engine out and doing all my own maintenance. These are great cars to learn on, very forgiving!!

Cheers,

David,
Sydney, Australia

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #22
tomkatb Larry Baygents Dayton, Ohio, USA 1963 MG MGB	Posted: April 13, 2012 08:13AM Registered: 8 years ago Posts: 3,370

If the car has been sitting a while put your battery charger on it. If voltage is too low it interferes with starting.

Charge it overnight.

If the starter was changed recently it is not likely the issue.

I would first push the car a bit to get a new location on the ring gear to try.

larry

L.W.(Larry)Baygents
63B
77 Spit

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #23
80MGBLE Jim S. NH, USA 1980 MG MGB	Posted: April 13, 2012 08:37AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 869

Looked like you were getting ready to start a small plane. Stop, sell that car and move on. Just looking at the starter wiring set up tells me it is not worth going any further. $800 will turn into $8,000 before you blink your eye and then you'll say "Hey I could have bought a really nice 1977 MGB for $4,000."

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #24
BumbleB74 William Milholen Tidewater VA, USA	Posted: April 13, 2012 09:07AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 4,617

That is a little exaggerated Jim.........

Sure sounds like the starter is spinning like crazy and not engaging the fly wheel. Push it forward in 3rd gear as suggested, and it will probably start.

1974-1/2 Roadster, "Bumble Bee", Corvette Yellow - in shambles, wire wheels
1976 Roadster, un-named, Sandglow - "driver" condition (stock + 32/36 Weber DGEV, cast iron header, 25D distributor), bolt on wheels

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #25
foxxy58 james fox Haywood, wv,, USA 1979 MG MGB "Little Red Car"	Posted: April 13, 2012 09:56AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 39

I bought a '78 B that had been sitting for a few years. I drove it about 25 miles to my house. the next day I got it legal and took off, about 5 miles in it just quit. I found it was not getting gas, so I replaced the fuel filter, and it started right up. then after about30 miles or so it did the same thing. the gas tank had good gas in it but also a heck of a lot of rust. I got the tank cleaned and lined and is great now. jmo

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #26
Steve5412 Steve Wareing Duncan B.C., Canada 1972 MG MGB GT	Posted: April 13, 2012 10:34AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 130

Hi Joseph,

From the video, as previously mentioned, the starter is turning however appears not be engaging the teeth on the flywheel.
Engines typically stop at the same position and therefore when starting it is engaging the same teeth...and these become wore over time.
You can either put it in gear and push it a couple of feet or take out the spark plugs and turn the engine over by hand using a wrench on the crankshaft pulley. If the starter then engages, you know that the flywheel needs work. If so, the engine will have to be pulled.

Let's be optimistic and say that your car may well work out to be a good deal. It will certainly need a major tune-up.
Suggest checking out the local night school courses and joining an MG or British car club. Members are always helpful.

regards, Steve

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #27
Steve5412 Steve Wareing Duncan B.C., Canada 1972 MG MGB GT	Posted: April 13, 2012 11:13AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 130

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/walkgraham/Mini%20rebuild/questions/wornflywheelteeth.jpg

Hi Joseph, Here is a photo of a flywheel with worn teeth. You will notice that the teeth looked chipped on this side. This is the point were your starter is trying to engage but can't "bite" on the now worn teeth and therefore it just spins.

Did you turn the engine and attempt to start?

regards, Steve

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #28
joem joseph mandra la grange park, USA	Posted: April 16, 2012 08:56PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 7

sorry about the lack of updated but because my limited amount of car knowledge, basic tasks take me a bit longer than normal. i took the starter off and the teeth are fine on it, the flywheel however is very bad. i found out that the reason for this is probably because my buddy used a screw that was half the size of the hole to secure the top part of the starter. i was told that this probably allowed the starter to bounce around when it was engaged, basically beating the hell outta the teeth on the flywheel. but anyway here's my next question........where can i get a good deal on a new flywheel?

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #29
dickmoritz Dick Moritz Philly 'burbs, PA, USA	Posted: April 16, 2012 09:10PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 7,231

Joseph,

Please check your Private Messages...

Dick

Errabundi Saepe, Semper Certi
(Often wrong, but always certain)

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #30
joneo54 John O'Mara metuchen, NJ, USA 1964 Ford Galaxie "Battlestar Galactica" 1966 Ford E-Series "Nellie Belle" 1974 MG MGB 1978 Triumph MC Bonneville 1999 Ford Taurus "SHO_NUFF"	Posted: April 16, 2012 09:48PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 41

If you're concerned that the flywheel may be missing teeth in one spot, just leave car in gear with key off and push it back a foot or so. That will move the ring gear to a spot that hopefully has teeth and if thats the issue the starter should engage. I'll second the fuel filter check. Doesn't take much to plug it up. I switched to the clear glass type with the replaceable filter element. Makes it so much easier to see when filter needs servicing.

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #31
Steve5412 Steve Wareing Duncan B.C., Canada 1972 MG MGB GT	Posted: April 16, 2012 10:25PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 130

Hello again Joseph,

Having determined that some of the flywheel's teeth are badly damaged, the flywheel will have to be removed and taken to a local machine shop for both a new ring and also to have it re-surfaced. This entails removing both the engine and gearbox.
At the same time, the clutch components and various seals should be examined and replaced as required. Given that the starter motor has been used several times in trying to start your car, this to will have to be checked for damage.

I would say for two guys with some experience and the correct tools (including an engine hoist) this is
a 2 -3 day job plus the time the machine shop needs. Essentially, all components including hoses, wires, radiator...anything that is connected to either the engine or gearbox will have to be removed and, of course, re-installed.

My feeling is that this may well be beyond your capability at the present time. Do you know anyone who is willing to assist you? It's not a complicated job....just a lot of work and really does need two people especially with the removal and reinstalled of the engine and gearbox.

Hope this helps. I am sure others will forward helpful advise.

regards, Steve

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #32
arkay Ronn Kilby El Cajon CA, USA 1979 MG MGB "Sabrina" 2004 Harley-Davidson Dyna	Posted: April 17, 2012 12:19AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 223

As I said previously, buy tools, plan to learn, forum is a great resource - and good luck!
Oh- and keep us informed on your progress. Especially pictures.

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #33
bawest47232 bruce west houston, tx, USA 1980 MG MGB "Maggie"	Posted: April 17, 2012 01:52AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 283

Haynes manual - cheap investment.

If the flywheel is bad in one spot, can't he manually turn the engine over a quarter turn with the nut on the crankshaft. Then try to start it again and see if it turns?

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #34
bawest47232 bruce west houston, tx, USA 1980 MG MGB "Maggie"	Posted: April 17, 2012 02:02AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 283

Oh... by the way, you can use search at the top of the forum to search for your symptoms. These cars have been around for awhile - as has this forum. Many issues have been resolved in the past by previous questions....

For example, last month, someone asked a similar question to yours - there is more information or possibilities to try.

http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?1,2001079,2001079#msg-2001079

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #35
bawest47232 bruce west houston, tx, USA 1980 MG MGB "Maggie"	Posted: April 17, 2012 02:04AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 283

I also don't hear the click that I usually get when I try to start mine. The starter should push the drive forward to engage. It doesn't sound like it is doing this.

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #36
Nigel206 Nigel Peart Kent, United Kingdom	Posted: April 17, 2012 05:31AM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 9

That grating sound is the toothed pinion moving forward and grinding against teeth on the ring-gear.
These ring-gear teeth are probably worn, as are the teeth on the pinion.

Your only sensible route is to pull the engine,replace the ring-gear and starter pinion.
The actual starter motor sounds like it's working fine as it's spinning when energised.
As for the dash switches,an auto electrician should be able to de-mod and put back to
standard.

Your engine running issues have nothing to do with the above advice. Carbs are prone to collecting
grit which blocks the small holes which aid slow-running/idleing. Good fuel filtering is essential.as is a clean fuel tank. Sometimes a 40 year old fuel tank can collect an inch of dirt/sediment/muck in the bottom.

Hope this helps.

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #37
Steve5412 Steve Wareing Duncan B.C., Canada 1972 MG MGB GT	Posted: April 17, 2012 09:51AM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 130

Hello again Joseph,

From all the previous posts you will be aware that the engine and gearbox will need to be pulled. You could actually still drive your car if you can always park on a hill by switching the ignition on and releasing the handbrake. Once moving, placing it in 2nd gear and slowly let the clutch out. This is of course not very practical.

So, do you know anyone knowledgeable in order to assist you pull the engine? There is actually no way around this.
The switches etc. can wait. It's better to focus on one thing at a time. To take your car into a garage and have a mechanic pull the engine will no doubt cost more that your original purchase price of the car.

Good luck.

Steve

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #38
HuckFinn Tammy U Hell's Canyon, USA	Posted: April 21, 2012 10:41AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 48

Removing a starter ain't Rocket Science! Takes a few bolts, a little gumption and if possible, someone to help. The help is not so important for taking it off as much as it is putting it back on (starters can be heavy and since they have to line up and the access isn't so open, two is better than one.) The local auto parts store (I find NAPA has more parts than the other one near me) can pretty much match the starter. There is a core charge, so don't throw away the old one. I would say a beginner can accomplish this task in about 20 minutes: That includes "What wrench do I need, socket? Metric or English?" and any cursing involved! :-) Not included is the trip to the auto parts store. Good luck!

The first picture is of the starter from the top of the engine. You can see the distributor cap (plug caps and wires coming out of it) at 11 o'clock (from the center of the picture.) The starter is at about 1 o'clock and is silver (right) and black (left). Part of the black side is obscured. As you can easily see from this angle, getting it in there is the most difficult part. I think I remember using an extension on the ratchet because there was some obstruction. The other bolts have to be accessed from the bottom of the engine, so make sure you've got a good, solid jack.

The second picture is of the starter, but it is a close-up. You can see the top bolt. It would be about 9 o'clock from the center, and is silver and black. Still obscured. The whole assembly weighs about 20 pounds.

HuckFinn...Free & breezy

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Re: just got a new mgb.......and now it's broken #39
HuckFinn Tammy U Hell's Canyon, USA	Posted: April 21, 2012 10:51AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 48

Oh my friend, you'll learn more about fixing cars than you ever thought you would! Just remember, take a deep breath, smile and shake your head on the days things go awry. Owning an MG provides for an excellent education in internal combustion engines and all of the tricks needed to keep them running... :-)

HuckFinn...Free & breezy

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