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ID Squeal Noise (Video)

Posted by Riff Raff

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ID Squeal Noise (Video) #1
Riff Raff Al J Maryland, USA 1979 MG MGB	Posted: April 09, 2012 08:11PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 484

Ok, I've been dealing with a squealing noise that is driving me nuts and a created a host of other issues, now resolved.

I have a new alternator (Saturn conversion) and belt (Gates 7375) on the car, a'79 MGB. The squeal noise is now worse than ever. The pulleys sure look aligned to me.

Or is this the water pump?

Here's the short video:

http://rides.webshots.com/video/3034323660062237293PNQgJg

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #2
AHark Andy Harkness Pittsburgh, USA 1975 MG MGB 1978 MG MGB V6 Conversion	Posted: April 09, 2012 08:31PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 861

I would remove te belt and check the water pump shaft for play. Î bet it's shot...

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #3
Riff Raff Al J Maryland, USA 1979 MG MGB	Posted: April 09, 2012 08:39PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 484

In reply to # 2035741 by AHark I would remove te belt and check the water pump shaft for play. Î bet it's shot...

Forgot to mention I did check that earlier, no play at all, nor any drips. But the PO had a new, Gold brand pump he sold me cheap so maybe he knew it was coming? Before the new alternator/belt, the squealing only came up when the car was driven for a while. Now, it starts immediately. I can't hear anything using a screwdriver to the ear, but the squeal is pretty loud now and drowns out the other noise.

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #4
AHark Andy Harkness Pittsburgh, USA 1975 MG MGB 1978 MG MGB V6 Conversion	Posted: April 09, 2012 08:53PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 861

Watch the video again and watch the bolts holding the air pump pulley to the water pump,
. Looks like the pulley slows with the squeel, I think your water pump is shot but others will chime in soon.

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #5
ClayJ Clay Johnston Mt. Olive, MS, USA 1972 MG MGB	Posted: April 09, 2012 09:09PM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 7,351

As Andy notes, just remove the belt and start the engine for a moment to see if the squeal goes away.

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #6
Riff Raff Al J Maryland, USA 1979 MG MGB	Posted: April 09, 2012 09:28PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 484

I made another short video showing the movement of the pulleys with the belt removed.

The Alternator pulley, makes a squeaking noise when turned clockwise and has some resistance. It seems to catch as I turn it by hand, not exactly smooth turning. It was new, so I didn't think to spin it before installation. The cooling fan is clear and touches nothing. After a few mintues of running, the belt pulley was warm, should it be? It's been sitting for 30 minutes or so and the alternator housing is still warm.

The pulley to the water pump spins freely and makes no noise (see the video). It might have the tinest bit of play but is dry underneath.

I suspect this alternator is causing the noise - is there anything I could have done to it?

http://rides.webshots.com/video/3099076320062237293wsgrRZ

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #7
AHark Andy Harkness Pittsburgh, USA 1975 MG MGB 1978 MG MGB V6 Conversion	Posted: April 09, 2012 09:41PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 861

Looks like you found the culpret....

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #8
Fogliner Mark Vanherd Thornhill,British Columbia, Canada 1974 MG MGB	Posted: April 09, 2012 09:47PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 710

I agree with andy.The rotating bolts seem to change speed with the squeal,Almost like it slows down or wobbles when it happens each time.Deffinately looking at a new water pump.
I'm thinking that it's almost seizing up with each shreak and causing the belt to slip as it strains to turn it.

Good think you have a spare.

Mark

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #9
29desoto Wayne Sanders Outside Otis, OR - in the woods!, USA 1965 MG MGB V6 Conversion "Tubby" 1977 MG MGB "Ole Yeller" 1979 MG MGB "Kermit" 1984 Chevrolet Corvette "The Green Weenie" 1994 Chevrolet S10 "Lil Red"	Posted: April 09, 2012 11:41PM Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 6,019

I agree. The video shows the pulley slowing with the squeal. Stay right there, you've found it!

Wayne Sanders
Rose Lodge, OR

"I don't care to belong to any club that accepts people like me"-joined Willamette Valley Club in 2011

77 MGB - Four tone paint - some kind of electronic ignition - hood props - cheap tires - new springs all around - mixture of poly and rubber bushings - original exhaust - fuzzy seatcovers - stereo out of old F150 pickup - virtually no rust - right front wrecked and semi well repaired - just about right for me!

78 MGB - Done right by a good PO, and I only bought it. Tell Jim how nice it is. But I did put in a Datsun 5 speed.

79/65 MGB - Tubby - Carmine Red - V-6 - T-5
Going to do this one more right, less rat rod!

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #10
jjgerding jay gerding Spring Hill, Florida, USA	Posted: April 09, 2012 11:54PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 1,045

First, the alternator turns in the same direction as the engine. Second, it should turn a lot easier than that. Suspect a bad bearing is probably your problem. It's POSSIBLE you could lube that, but it probably would not last.

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #11
Riff Raff Al J Maryland, USA 1979 MG MGB	Posted: April 10, 2012 05:42AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 484

In reply to # 2035943 by jjgerding First, the alternator turns in the same direction as the engine. Second, it should turn a lot easier than that. Suspect a bad bearing is probably your problem. It's POSSIBLE you could lube that, but it probably would not last.

The alternator body was still warm this morning, that bearing has to be bad. Lifetime warranty at any rate, so back it goes.
I install the new one, than move to the waterpump. Stay tuned.

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #12
Dave Braun Minnesota, USA 1952 MG TD "Tommy" 1970 MG MGB "Maggie" 1974 Triumph Spitfire 1500 "Sammy"	Posted: April 10, 2012 06:59AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 1,977

nice job of trouble shooting and showing the problem with the videos. Great looking engine compartment too.

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #13
ClayJ Clay Johnston Mt. Olive, MS, USA 1972 MG MGB	Posted: April 10, 2012 08:16AM Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 7,351

That's always been my concern with "lifetime" warranty rebuilt components from the big chain parts houses. How many times can you change the same part in a lifetime? Of course, remanufactured parts tend to be a crapshoot from any source.

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #14
jjgerding jay gerding Spring Hill, Florida, USA	Posted: April 10, 2012 08:25AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 1,045

Once purchased a rebuilt starter for a 280ZX from Autozone. Didn't last, had it replaced, also didn't last. Finally went to the junkyard, got a used one, worked fine, never had a problem from then on out.

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #15
dickmoritz Dick Moritz Philly 'burbs, PA, USA	Posted: April 10, 2012 09:39AM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 7,221

Al,

You could try looping a fan belt around the alternator pulley and around the chuck of your electric drill and (carefully, please...) running the drill at its highest speed in the appropriate direction to see if you can precipitate the noise. Then do likewise with the water pump. Should steer you to the culprit...

Dick

Errabundi Saepe, Semper Certi
(Often wrong, but always certain)

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #16
Riff Raff Al J Maryland, USA 1979 MG MGB	Posted: April 10, 2012 07:42PM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 484

Guys, I'm stumped here.

This evening, I put on a new alternator and a new water pump. Squealing is worse than ever. No belt and there is no squeal. I put the old belt on and it was a little less, but after driving for a few miles, it broke the belt. I had put an 1/8" shim on the alternator mount, so I pulled that off (there was no shim on the original setup).

I put the new belt on, the squealing is really bad. I took a short video, but it was so bad, I didn't want to let it run very long.

http://rides.webshots.com/video/3006533600062237293AozYhk

I'm really don't know what else to do or check..

Is there any chance the crankshaft pulley isn't on correctly? I torqued it down to the factory spec (70 ft-lbs) and bent the lock washer.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 07:45PM by Riff Raff.

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #17
dickmoritz Dick Moritz Philly 'burbs, PA, USA	Posted: April 10, 2012 09:28PM Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 7,221

Al,

Is it possible that the impeller of the water pump is hitting the cylinder wall of cylinder number 1 inside the block? Did you try spinning the alternator and then the water pump by using a drill and the belt?

Dick

Errabundi Saepe, Semper Certi
(Often wrong, but always certain)

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #18
PaulP Paul Peterson , WA, USA 1973 MG MGB GT 1974 MG MGB	Posted: April 10, 2012 09:52PM Registered: 10 years ago Posts: 3,952

Have you tried the put the end of a long screwdriver on the potentially offending component and listen w/ your ear near the handle trick?

(of course, keep your wits about you when trying this approach. i.e. Be Careful).

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #19
Riff Raff Al J Maryland, USA 1979 MG MGB	Posted: April 11, 2012 06:31AM Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 484

In reply to # 2036812 by dickmoritz Al,

Is it possible that the impeller of the water pump is hitting the cylinder wall of cylinder number 1 inside the block? Did you try spinning the alternator and then the water pump by using a drill and the belt?

Dick

Dick:
I did try that and both spin quietly. I can't get it moving real fast with the wheel, but turning at a decent pace. The pump spins and freewheels easily with no belt.

I can't move the angle of the alternator any back towards the firewall,as the front mount tab is square up against the water pump tab. I could shim the alternator forward. But, using a long, straight file to determine pulley alignment, that makes the line between those pulleys off to my eye. I guess it can't hurt to try, this way sure isn't working.

Something has to be way off to make that noise and break that belt so quickly?

Paul: With the motor running, and belt installed, the squealing is so loud there is no way I could hear anything with a screwdriver to the ear (I did that last week, and thought the noise was coming from the alternator, so I replaced it)

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Re: ID Squeal Noise (Video) #20
mbiskobing Mike Biskobing Austin, Texas, USA 1979 MG MGB "Rudy"	Posted: April 11, 2012 01:06PM Registered: 4 years ago Posts: 143

I'd bet its pulley alignment. They have to line up perfectly.

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