MGB & GT Forum

Welcome! Sign In Register
Please Sign In or Register to Search

Swivel Axle Top Trunion Bushings (are real bear)

Posted by rwsherman 
Richard Sherman
Massachusetts, USA   usa

My 1980 MGB recently failed a safety inspection due to excessive movement in the King Pins. I am in the process of replacing both front Swivel Axles with new rebuilt units from Moss. I got the old swivels out without too much trouble. Howver, I'm finding it extemely difficult to get the new top trunion bushings in between the shock arms.

After you press the bushing into the trunion, the total width is well beyond the width in the shock arm. I can't seem to compress the rubber enough to get them in. I did manage to do it on the right side using a lot of grease, but seemed to make a mess of the bushing in the process. I have had no luck on the left. I actually tore off a large piece from the edge of the bushing trying to get it in.

I'm suprised that I haven't seem anyone else having this problem. Am I missing something here? Is there a special way to get these bushings inserted?

Thanks for any help.

Rich
. You can hide this ad & support this site by upgrading to a Gold Membership ~ click here for more info
PapaMG Avatar
John Shook
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA   usa
1953 MG TD "Gracie"
1979 MG MGB "Maggie"
1979 MG Midget 1500 "Midge"

Deleted.. wrong application

John



MG,, You can't have just one!

1953 MG TD Restored

1979 B Roadster. SU HS4 Converted, De-Smogged, Suspension lowered, Limey fuse kit installed, Tourist Trophy Exhaust, Crane XR700 Ignition installed in a Lucas Opus.

1979 Midget 1500 De-Smogged, SU HS2 Converted. Chrome Bumper Converted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2011 01:13PM by PapaMG.
PeterC Avatar
Peter Caldwell
Madison Wisconsin, USA   usa

The shock arm can be split. Undo the bolt about 3" inboard of the trunion, and spread the shock arms.

Peter

World Wide Auto Parts of Madison   – Madison Wisconsin USA Supplier of New Old Stock parts for all imports. Rebuilder of lever action shock absorbers for British cars. Call (800)362-1025 M-F 8-5 Central or parts@nosimport.com
rocannon Avatar
Frank L
Oklahoma, USA   usa
1980 MG MGB "Restored By Photoshop Inc."

Loosen the bolt that clamps the two shock arms to each other. You can then spread the arms apart enough to slip the trunnion in quite easily.

Remember to tighten the bolt back up.winking smiley



“The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.”
Anon

TANSTAAFL !
. You can hide this ad & support this site by upgrading to a Gold Membership ~ click here for more info
lewisrn Avatar
Bob Lewis
Danville, Indiana, USA   usa
1980 MG MGB "The "B""

Here is my super expensive gadget to make the job easy. Just loosen the bolt that holds the arms together and insert the larger bolt with nut between the arms. Use the nut to open the arms until the smaller bolt fits between the arms behind the larger bolt. Remove the longer bolt and insert the trunion until it is against the shorter bolt holding the arms apart. Now knock out the shorter bolt, line up the trunion and seure it with the trunion bolt.

EDIT- The longer bolt is 3" and the shorter is 2"



Life is like a jar of Jalapeno peppers-- What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2011 03:09PM by lewisrn.

Attachments:
100_0673.JPG (34.8 KB) –
100_0673.JPG

rrmgb Avatar
robert schau
Reston, VA., USA   usa
1973 MG MGB
1973 MG MGB

Well, I do the above too but jam a flat blade screwdriver between the arms.
But before that I make sure the shock link on top of the KP has been thoroughly cleaned of rust using a 1/2 round file. Then a bit of grease on the outer portion of the bushing and in it goes.
RS



"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time."
Sir Winston Churchill
---------------------------------------------------------------
"It all starts in your mind's eye, then it goes to your heart
and finally to your very soul."
G.S.George PHD
. You can hide this ad & support this site by upgrading to a Gold Membership ~ click here for more info
MGB567 Avatar
Barrie Braxton
Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia   aus
1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"

Richard, welcome. Do as Bob suggests. I have a slightly different method in that I spread the shock arms with a bolt like Bob's placed where the upper trunnion pin goes - it needs a head and nut greater than the hole. Tightening the nut will spread the shock arms (don't forget to back off the bolt that keeps the shock arms together). The arms will only spread enough to get the upper trunnion and bushes in - the arms won't spread endlessly. I put washers into the gap that is created resting on that arm bolt and remove my spreader bolt. Lift the trunnion with bushes up and push trunnion pin in and then pull the washers out and then tighten to spec. If you put your finger in the upper trunnion you'll feel the kingpin and in particular the groove in the top of the kingpin. When the kingpin and top trunnion after perfectly aligned you will feel virtually no edge of that groove. Until the two are aligned you will not be able to get the bushes in correctly. The bushes need to butt up to either side of the trunnion (or very close to it) before trying to push the assembly through the shock arms.



CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67 owned since 3/77. Undergoing nut and bolt restoration. Tartan Red (now). 18GB +40 balanced with almost all new internals. Peter Burgess big valve fast road head. Piper 285. TT exhaust. ARP everywhere. 123 ign. Needham 4synchro c/r box. Stock rebuilt/replaced suspension. Superpro bushes. New brakes all round including all pipes in SS flex. Interior redone. CAMS approved roll bar and side bars. Lots more. Hybrid of o/e and show/fast road car. Not for sale - it's my toy!
MCCT Avatar
Charles Tisdall
New Zealand, Auckland, New Zealand   nzl
1967 MG MGB

I just spread mine with a stubby screwdriver...all went well?
. You can hide this ad & support this site by upgrading to a Gold Membership ~ click here for more info
MGB567 Avatar
Barrie Braxton
Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia   aus
1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"

I did the screw driver trick but I found I needed a slightly larger gap between the arms than a screwdriver gave hence my method. It could be that my Superpro bushes have a slightly thicker collar than o/e.



CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67 owned since 3/77. Undergoing nut and bolt restoration. Tartan Red (now). 18GB +40 balanced with almost all new internals. Peter Burgess big valve fast road head. Piper 285. TT exhaust. ARP everywhere. 123 ign. Needham 4synchro c/r box. Stock rebuilt/replaced suspension. Superpro bushes. New brakes all round including all pipes in SS flex. Interior redone. CAMS approved roll bar and side bars. Lots more. Hybrid of o/e and show/fast road car. Not for sale - it's my toy!
The Brown B Avatar
Rob S
Birmingham, USA   usa
1978 MG MGB "The Brown B"

Just out of curiosity, are you using the "V8" bushings with the steel insert? When I replaced the OE a few years back, there was no way I could get them to fit on my 78 rbb. I ended up ordering the poly bushings. I split the front shock to make them wider, used bolts, jam nuts screw drivers, etc. No problem with making them wider. The bolt would not tighten up. Not at all. I stripped the bolts and nuts. Had to order more. More downtime. Maybe my knuckleheadedness was the reason they would not fit. Dunno. But I have a set of "V8" bushings around here somewhere, new, unused.

Happy Motoring!
MGB567 Avatar
Barrie Braxton
Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia   aus
1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"

Rob my Superpro are a 3 piece - two bushes one steel tube (aka crush tube/piece). If you do not have the upper trunnion in complete alignment with the groove in the top of the kingpin then there's no way that you can compress the three to fit between the shock arms. Is the V8 set similar and might that have been the problem? I assume your poly bushes have a crush tube which begs the question if they fit why didn't the V8.



CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67 owned since 3/77. Undergoing nut and bolt restoration. Tartan Red (now). 18GB +40 balanced with almost all new internals. Peter Burgess big valve fast road head. Piper 285. TT exhaust. ARP everywhere. 123 ign. Needham 4synchro c/r box. Stock rebuilt/replaced suspension. Superpro bushes. New brakes all round including all pipes in SS flex. Interior redone. CAMS approved roll bar and side bars. Lots more. Hybrid of o/e and show/fast road car. Not for sale - it's my toy!
Richard Sherman
Massachusetts, USA   usa

WOW! I never expected to get so many responses so fast. Boy, what a revelation. I never even thought of looking at the shock arm. I thought it was one piece. I guess that's because it's pretty covered with dirt and oil and I never really saw that possibility. I wish I knew this sooner, it would have saved me a whole lot of time and aggravation, let alone another new set of bushings. It was so frustrating that I suspected there must be an easier way and I was missing something obvious.

Thanks so much to all of you for your quick responses. I can’t wait to try it out once the new bushings arrive. I actually ordered 2 new sets from Moss, one standard and one poly. Not sure yet which I’ll use.

Rich

PS - I just turned 62 last June and have worked on a lot of cars over the years (brakes, exhaust, body, manifolds, and even valve jobs), but never did a front suspension before. I guess the mind isn't as sharp as it once was or I might have figured this out for myself.

PPS – Now can anyone tell me why my front steering seems to be almost frozen since I jacked up the front end?
MGB567 Avatar
Barrie Braxton
Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia   aus
1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"

Possibly you have no end float in the kingpins. There is meant to be .002" (and while that's next to nothing it is something). Inside the trunnion is a shim, a brass spacer and another shim on top - the spacer acts like a bearing. When the kingpin nut is tightened it should not clamp the trunnion to these hence the minute amount of endfloat. Now all that assumes that the shims (there are three thicknessess available with about .005" difference between each. If the shims aren't correct the kingpin will bind thus locking the steering especially when there's no load on it by being up in the air. That's my guess which is fresh in my mind given I've just gone through this in the last week of reshimming my kingpins and fitting bushes as well as springs and putting the whole shooting match back on the xmember (except wheel bearings etc) - that's tomorrow's job.



CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67 owned since 3/77. Undergoing nut and bolt restoration. Tartan Red (now). 18GB +40 balanced with almost all new internals. Peter Burgess big valve fast road head. Piper 285. TT exhaust. ARP everywhere. 123 ign. Needham 4synchro c/r box. Stock rebuilt/replaced suspension. Superpro bushes. New brakes all round including all pipes in SS flex. Interior redone. CAMS approved roll bar and side bars. Lots more. Hybrid of o/e and show/fast road car. Not for sale - it's my toy!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2011 05:35AM by MGB567.
MGB79Tim Avatar
Tim Lynch
Florida, USA   usa
1979 MG MGB

I am wondering if all of this work is necessary when someone buys the standard or the premier set from the B-hive?

http://bhive.tierranet.com/200MGBFRONTsuspensionkits.html

I am hoping that all this is done by the B-hive and all I have to do it bolt the new stuff in...will there by any shimming needed on my part, or is that taken care of with this premier set?
MGB567 Avatar
Barrie Braxton
Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia   aus
1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"

Tim I suspect you would be right but check with Gordon. I had the issue because I took out the spacer and installed needle roller bearings so I had to adjust end float including making my own shims. It was trial and error (even with the use of a dial gauge) to increase the shimming until the kingpin didn't bind and I had correct endfloat.



CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67 owned since 3/77. Undergoing nut and bolt restoration. Tartan Red (now). 18GB +40 balanced with almost all new internals. Peter Burgess big valve fast road head. Piper 285. TT exhaust. ARP everywhere. 123 ign. Needham 4synchro c/r box. Stock rebuilt/replaced suspension. Superpro bushes. New brakes all round including all pipes in SS flex. Interior redone. CAMS approved roll bar and side bars. Lots more. Hybrid of o/e and show/fast road car. Not for sale - it's my toy!
Wade Keene Avatar
Homewood, IL, USA   usa

If there isn't enough endfloat in the king pins, they will bind in the swivel axle which will cause hard steering. Any rebuilt swivel axle SHOULD be assembled so that isn't the case; they'll be fully assembled with the required shims to give the proper endflost.

"... Inside the trunnion is a shim, a brass spacer and another shim on top - the spacer acts like a bearing ... Now all that assumes that the shims (there are three thicknessess available with about .005" difference between each..."
Actually, the better rebuild kits have a porous bronze bearing and not a brass spacer. The shims come in many thicknesses (I have about 2 dozen sizes in increments of .001"winking smiley but most kits, even the good ones, anymore only have a few. There might be 10+ shims in there but only 3 sizes. That's probably the biggest reason to buy a pre-assembled swivel axle and not do it yourself.

Regarding spreading the shock arms, I just use an old wood chisel. Remove the bolt holding the arms together, drive in a wood chisel with a hammer. You won't hurt anything, you have a handle to lever the arms out further if needed, and its much easier and quicker than these spreader bolt ideas.

Rob S, regarding the "V8" bushings not fitting - first, generally when one says V8 bushings one is referring to the lower inner wishbone arm bushes that are rubber with a steel tube inside. They are constructed very much like the 2-piece metalastik upper trunnion bushes; these came stock and are still stock in the suspension rebuild kits. In my experience, they do need to be compressed more in order to fit within the shock arms than most poly bushings, but its still perfectly manageable. If they won't fit there's probably something wrong, quite possibly the kingpin notch not in close enough alignment with the trunnion cutout.
MGB567 Avatar
Barrie Braxton
Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia   aus
1966 MG MGB MkI "Money Guzzler"

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=452#8

Sorry (Richard/Wade) I meant bronze thrust washer not brass spacer - item 8 above. I took my shim size advice from item 9 above hence ending up making my own as these 3 which I have were all too thick to achieve correct endfloat with my needle roller bearings - it took a combination of item 9s and my own.



CKD 11/66 first registered 8/5/67 owned since 3/77. Undergoing nut and bolt restoration. Tartan Red (now). 18GB +40 balanced with almost all new internals. Peter Burgess big valve fast road head. Piper 285. TT exhaust. ARP everywhere. 123 ign. Needham 4synchro c/r box. Stock rebuilt/replaced suspension. Superpro bushes. New brakes all round including all pipes in SS flex. Interior redone. CAMS approved roll bar and side bars. Lots more. Hybrid of o/e and show/fast road car. Not for sale - it's my toy!
Wade Keene Avatar
Homewood, IL, USA   usa

Barrie, understood if you mis-typed. But so others know, there are kits out there with brass thrust washers instead of bronze.
Richard Sherman
Massachusetts, USA   usa

Thanks again to everyone reponding to my original post. I'm wainting for the new bushinss to arrive. they should be here in the next day or so. In the meantime, I loosened up the shock bolt and can pry the ends apart about 1/4". That should be plenty to get the new bushings in without much effort.

As far as the steering goes, it doesn't appear to be the swivel. I bought the swivels and king pins as a complete rebuilt assembly from Moss. It's all shimed to spec and seems to turn freely. The steering is pretty mush frozen, even with the ball joints disconnected. I can barely move the steering wheel. I'm wondering if I did something to the rack when I jacked up the car. I hope it will correct itself once I'm done with the axles and get it back on the ground.

Rich
. You can hide this ad & support this site by upgrading to a Gold Membership ~ click here for more info

Reply to this topic or post your own questions!

Members Sign In if you've already registered, or

Register a New Account

Registration is free and takes less than a minute

Having trouble posting or changing forum settings?
Check the Forum Help File (FAQ) or contact the webmaster.


Join The Club

Sign in to ask questions, share photos, and access all website features

Adjust Text Size

Larger Smaller
Reset Save