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5speed conversion

Posted by nicene 
william sanders
smithfield, nc, USA   usa

first post. howdy ya'll. i've been exhaustively searching thru all the old posts and archived threads about the many 5speed conversions. i've settled on a t5 with the ratios that i've been looking for. now here's the question....

anybody have any experience with the bell housings that are being sold on ebay?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MGB-Bell-Housing-5-Speed-Transmission_W0QQitemZ360156412044QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item53dafeb88c

they're for a t9, but i'm wondering if they could be made to fit a t5 with a little work.

i've been trying to get some dimensions from the seller, but they havn't responded yet. i'm concerned about the depth of the housing and the diameter of the input shaft hole. i'm guessing that i'll have to re-drill some mounting holes for the t5 bolts or get an adapter fabbed up at a machine shop?

this looks like an ideal purchase rather than having to hack up an existing mgb tranny and deal with all the machining issues.

any thoughts, advice?
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mowogman Avatar
Bryan Frazier
NC, USA   usa

Welcome aboard!

Sorry I cant help out with T5 information. We have a large group of Enthusiast local to your area. You may be interested in checking us out. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ccbas66/
Speedracer Avatar
Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   usa
1967 MG MGB "The Biscuit"

That ebay seller is Pierce Manifold, which is a reputable vendor. It looks to be same as with the T9 unit I have here with my new T9 kit, minus the throw oput bearing pivot plate. Now I know it will not bolt onto a T5 in any thing resembling what it is now, now with that being said, I'm sure with enough modifcation it could be made to wrok. Bob White who post here is using the T5 trannys in a MGB, he is custom making his own bellhousing using the front section of a MGB gear case, I think I would talk to Bob about getting you one made, thet may be the easier route if you set on the T5, I know Bob has looked at my T9 bellhousing, so he's familar with them.

The T9 kit is a nice set up, it uses all the normal MGB clutch and flywheel pieces right down to the stock clutch disc, so thats nice as you never have to worry about any special parts, it all common MGB stuff, it higher than the Datsun set up, but comes with a newly rebuilt tranny, but it's a very straight forward approach with very minimal changes to the original MGB clutch and flywheel piece and even looks like a MGB tranny in the car when viewing thru the engine bay, thats important to some customer.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Performance Street/Race engines- modified heads, and DIY engine rebuilt kits
New alloy wheels options for MGBs, see vendors forum for details.
http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?68,2657584
Be sure to check my engine rebuild kit thread in the Vendors forum for weekly tips. http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?68,1828263

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william sanders
smithfield, nc, USA   usa

thanks for the info hap. yeah, i've been reading a lot of what bob and joemama have done. i've already settled on the t5 as is just makes better sense. i can reuse nearly all the stock clutch stuff except for the disc providing i get the bell housing situation straightened out. i had actually found a t9 out of a merkur for cheap, but as i found out, parts are just damn near impossible to find for those transmissions. i called around to a number of distributors and tranmission shops.

i just picked up a t5 recently that came out of a 97 mustang. i was originally gonna go the route that bob is going, but i'm thinking that the ebay part may be the cheaper/easier way to go in the long run. you wouldn't happen to have any of the dimensions from your t9 bellhousing, would you? i'll send bob a pm to see if he's got any advice with the ebay listing.

thanks.

oh and btw hap, i was probably gonna be getting in touch with you in the near future about some head/valve work and discuss some options related to that.
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Jim Lema Avatar
Sunny Seattle, USA   usa
1967 MG MGB

I don't know the length of the input shaft on the two transmissions. If the T9 shaft is longer from the end to the face of the transmission case you would not be able to use the bell housing. As for T9 parts, they should be available in the UK. I would check with Bob White and see why he didn't try to use the T9 bellhousing. Would be nice if someone made a bellhousing that would work with the T5.
Jim Lema Avatar
Sunny Seattle, USA   usa
1967 MG MGB

On Quantumechanic.com site it says that the input shaft of the T9 is 160mm. That's 6.299 inches.
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SafetyFast Avatar
Shareef Hassan
Murrieta, California, USA   usa

Also try BAT for Type-9 parts.
william sanders
smithfield, nc, USA   usa

In reply to a post by Jim Lema On Quantumechanic.com site it says that the input shaft of the T9 is 160mm. That's 6.299 inches.

yeah, i've already figured that i'm gonna have to have the input shaft machined since i've got the t5 with the longer input shaft. it came out of a 97 mustang and has the .73 5th gear. i just sent joemama a pm. i'll see what he has to say about the t9 housing.
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william sanders
smithfield, nc, USA   usa

here's another question while i'm at it...

how do you measure the length of the input shaft. for my model t5, the input shaft should be 7.85, but none of my measurements show that number. measuring from the top of the roller bearing race, i get about 7.67in.

so how do i measure the length of a t5 input shaft. and for that matter, how is the length of a t9 input shaft being measured?
chris Avatar
Chris Roop
Pendleton, OR, USA   usa

Does the T5 fit the MGB pilot bushing? I just installed a T9 kit into an MGA running a 3-main MGB engine, and part of the kit was a carrier/extension for the pilot bushing that you had to drive into the flywheel.

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william sanders
smithfield, nc, USA   usa

i doubt very seriously that it fits into the bushing. i already knew before buying the tranny that i was gonna get the input shaft machined. i was just gonna machine the t5 pilot to the mgb stock diameter. either that or get a new bushing machined.
chris Avatar
Chris Roop
Pendleton, OR, USA   usa

So, you have the correct length with the T5 then? With the T9, part of the pilot bushing housing's function was to work as an extension.

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william sanders
smithfield, nc, USA   usa

^
i'm not sure. i guess i won't know until i get the bell housing and do some measuring.

so how long is the spigot bush adapter for the t9 kit? and how much does the t9 pilot engage the bushing?
chris Avatar
Chris Roop
Pendleton, OR, USA   usa

It extends about 1/2" to the rear of the flywheel and must be about 3/4" inside the flywheel.

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Speedracer Avatar
Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   usa
1967 MG MGB "The Biscuit"

In the case of the T9, the input shaft diamater is smaller than the stock MGB, so a pilot bushing is made from bronze with a smaller ID for the smaller input shaft and the same od as the stock busihing , it would be easy enough to make, a simple lathe job, even a widdler like me smiling smiley could pull it off. I have no idea if the input shaft on the T5 is too large to work with the back of the MGB crankshaft, I'm thinking not, knowing Bob has already done this conversion in our talks of this I don't recall him saying the input shaft was machined.

Will before you chunk out over 200 bucks for a bellhousing that may or may not work with a T5, I would talk to Bob, and you can call me on any measurements on the T9/MGB bellhousing, which I have a brand new one sittting in my shop. What I'm thinking is might end up being fairly indept machining fabrication job to convert the T9/MGB bellhousing for the T5, and what Bob is doing now is more cost effective. I've built a dyno adapter using the front section of a Midget gearbox, and it was fairly complicated and expensive, so maybe starting off with a MGB gearbox case for say 50 bucks would be better than starting off with the T9/MGB bellhousing for 200+. Bottom line if you end up having to cut the back off the T9 bellhousing to get the length you need, it would be the same thing as using a MGB gearbox case anyway.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Performance Street/Race engines- modified heads, and DIY engine rebuilt kits
New alloy wheels options for MGBs, see vendors forum for details.
http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?68,2657584
Be sure to check my engine rebuild kit thread in the Vendors forum for weekly tips. http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?68,1828263

Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Tech Advice - Alloy wheels for MGB/TR6
william sanders
smithfield, nc, USA   usa

yeah, i'm waiting to hear from bob before i shell out $200.

maybe i'm missing something here, but it seems like the length of the input shaft would be the only hangup to using the ebay bell housing. confused smiley

providing i get the input shaft machined to the proper length and the pilot turned to the right diameter, then i don't see why it wouldn't work (assuming there is still enough spline length after machining). the only other important measurement should be the diameter for the input shaft bearing retainer on the bell housing. can you measure the diameter of the hole for me on the t9 housing? my bearing retainer has a diameter of 4.91in (124.75mm)
twentyover Avatar
Greg Fast
Burbs of Detroit MI, USA   usa

There are a number of input shaft lengths- and it's easier if the shaft is longer than if it's shorter.

Machine an aluminum intermediate plate between the bell and the transmission. Use the bearing register of the bell to center, and then cut the bearing register in the plate for the T5. Transfer punch the plate for T9 bellhpousing screws and T5 transmission screw patterns






edited for spelling



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2010 12:27AM by twentyover.
chris Avatar
Chris Roop
Pendleton, OR, USA   usa

Yer not missing anything! Good Luck!

Member Services:
Not just for MG parts. Quality new parts at 15% off of list. No sales tax in Oregon Check out the Vendor Market page.
Speedracer Avatar
Hap Waldrop
Greenville, SC, USA   usa
1967 MG MGB "The Biscuit"

In reply to a post by nicene yeah, i'm waiting to hear from bob before i shell out $200.

maybe i'm missing something here, but it seems like the length of the input shaft would be the only hangup to using the ebay bell housing. confused smiley

providing i get the input shaft machined to the proper length and the pilot turned to the right diameter, then i don't see why it wouldn't work (assuming there is still enough spline length after machining). the only other important measurement should be the diameter for the input shaft bearing retainer on the bell housing. can you measure the diameter of the hole for me on the t9 housing? my bearing retainer has a diameter of 4.91in (124.75mm)


Well how the bellhousing bolts to the transmission might be another issue, more than likely not the same. Another would be how much needs to machined off a input shaft, if the input shaft was grossly longer, you could start to get in splines and such and might have to have to do more machine work than neccessary, by using the custom bellhousing Bob makes from the MGB tranny case, chances of it bolting on and working without major fabrication is about nill. Call me crazy but if it were me, I go to Bob and get him to make me a one of his "known to work" set ups. I can tell you first hand if you have to cut the rear section off the T9/MGB bellhousing and make a new rear section, it will run you $400-600, as it will be fairly involved fabrication, and nullify, anything you though you might save, money wise, by buying this bellhousing.

Another thing to keep in mind, is which Mustang T5 you use, Bob's first one was a T5 form a V8 Mustang which has much more of a 5th gear overdrive, too much for the average MGB with a 4 cylinder engine, Bob used the V8 T5 in his conversion, but found it to be too much of a OD 5th gear, but since this was early MGB with a banjo rear end housing he could just use a diff from a MGA to correct this, this would not have been a option in a tube axle (1968-on) MGB. In the second car he did, he used the 4cyl T5 which has a ratio more suited to the MGB engine, but hese gearboxes are tougher to find as they are used by 4 cylinder short track racers.



Hap Waldrop
Acme Speed Shop
864-370-3000
Performance Street/Race engines- modified heads, and DIY engine rebuilt kits
New alloy wheels options for MGBs, see vendors forum for details.
http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?68,2657584
Be sure to check my engine rebuild kit thread in the Vendors forum for weekly tips. http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?68,1828263

Member Services:
MG/ Triumph Performance Street/Race Engines - Cylinder Head Porting - Modified SU HS Carbs - DIY Engine Rebuild Kits With Tech Advice - Alloy wheels for MGB/TR6
william sanders
smithfield, nc, USA   usa

yeah, i figured that i'd have to drill and tap some new threads for the t5 mounts. i'm still waiting to hear from bob, so i'll let ya know what he says.

concerning the t5 itself, i did a bunch of hunting around for it. it came out of the v6 mustang so it's got the ratios perfectly suited for what i'm looking for (.73 5th). And with me looking to improve the power 40%-45% over stock, i should think the engine should have more than enough grunt to handle a .73 ratio without any problems. I havn't run the numbers yet, but i'd guess 70mph cruising should have the tach dancing around the high 20's. And 1.00 to .73 shouldn't be too big of a drop. At least not as bad as .63 or .68.
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