I know Skye closed this section down almost two years ago b/c of some unkind posting. I am curious to know will it reopen? or will Skye bulldoze it from the site? James http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2137763#msg-2137763 Sat, 18 May 2013 16:38:06 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139368#msg-2139368 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139368#msg-2139368 In reply to # 2138491 by AmishIndy

In reply to # 2138431 by racer76

In reply to # 2138402 by AmishIndy the only political debates that belong here are historiocal ones relevent to the cars during their manufacture. What policies led to the demise of the british auto industry for example.

Yeah? Management sucked the life out of the thing and blamed the workers (then rewrote history so that it is quoted forever more)... nothing changes so discussion is futile.

Oversimplification really. Margret Thatcher, Richard Nixon, Ralph Nader, OPEC, Anwar Sadat, and others all played a role in the distruction of BL. It wasnt just BL management it was also government policy and the management policies at other firms. There is lots of room for debate there. Specially over exactly which had the biggest influence. Discusion of history isnt futile if it helps us understand the present or better yet, the future.
I agree... I think it was Nixon's fault!]]> Steve64B Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 22:28:24 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139306#msg-2139306 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139306#msg-2139306 In reply to # 2139233 by Gerry Very wise move, Skye
Ditto, I think it's fair to say it was given a good go, but failed.]]> sweep Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 21:25:55 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139233#msg-2139233 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139233#msg-2139233 Gerry Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 20:04:05 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139154#msg-2139154 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139154#msg-2139154 29desoto Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 18:28:03 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139074#msg-2139074 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2139074#msg-2139074
I was briefly considering allowing political discussion but only 1980 and earlier, but then again there are just as many bad feelings still floating around from Vietnam and the "culture wars" that would probably be just as bad.

So no, unless it's directly related to MG, this is an MG website after all, politics will not be coming back.

Skye]]> Skye Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 16:35:21 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138815#msg-2138815 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138815#msg-2138815
I remember seeing photos at the time of German & French auto plants with the car parks full of whatever car was being made there. In the BL car parks, a BL car was a rarity.

The demise of BL was caused by many factors, management, government and unions but the unions must carry the lions share of the blame. I remember the comments from the union leaders when the government became involved. Basically once it became state funded, they thought they had the right to whatever they wanted. It was not unknown for a shift to begin and be on strike within an hour of starting. There was no negotiation from the unions at shop floor level. The wildcat strike was the weapon of choice and the higher union management did nothing to try to alter that.

One thing you have to remember is that the political party in power at the time the government started to pour money into BL was created and funded by the unions.

Political it may be, but it's also history.]]> oily-hands Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 10:52:30 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138798#msg-2138798 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138798#msg-2138798 Rod H. Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 10:37:07 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138728#msg-2138728 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138728#msg-2138728 ]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:13:06 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138720#msg-2138720 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138720#msg-2138720 In reply to # 2138715 by racer76

In reply to # 2138708 by wyatt
...report button??....is the a euphemism for the chicken shit mommas boy weasel button??

No, it is the "I believe someone has broken the rules the owner of this site has set, so I will alert the owner so he can make a judgement on how he wants to handle that potential breach".

But what would you know about being a good citizen. I can just imagine you taking a piss in the sink of the house you get invited to a party in and believing some who raised the issue with the house owner was a "chicken shit mommas boy".

You obviously were never house trained.
jeeze, i just asked a simple question,so...piss on ya,komrade...........]]> wyatt Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 09:02:45 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138715#msg-2138715 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138715#msg-2138715 In reply to # 2138708 by wyatt
...report button??....is the a euphemism for the chicken shit mommas boy weasel button??
No, it is the "I believe someone has broken the rules the owner of this site has set, so I will alert the owner so he can make a judgement on how he wants to handle that potential breach".

But what would you know about being a good citizen. I can just imagine you taking a piss in the sink of the house you get invited to a party in and believing some who raised the issue with the house owner was a "chicken shit mommas boy".

You obviously were never house trained.]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:59:08 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138708#msg-2138708 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138708#msg-2138708 In reply to # 2138655 by racer76

In reply to # 2138650 by mowogman Might as well open the Political forum back up...politics are flowing into the Off Topic Forum anyway.

Have you hit the Report button yet?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
...report button??....is the a euphemism for the chicken shit mommas boy weasel button??]]> wyatt Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:54:11 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138697#msg-2138697 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138697#msg-2138697 mowogman Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:42:15 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138664#msg-2138664 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138664#msg-2138664 In reply to # 2138650 by mowogman Might as well open the Political forum back up...politics are flowing into the Off Topic Forum anyway.
My apologies if my posts seem political.I don't intend them to be.

Personally i see it as History.And from History we can all learn.]]> peter d Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 08:06:54 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138655#msg-2138655 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138655#msg-2138655 In reply to # 2138650 by mowogman Might as well open the Political forum back up...politics are flowing into the Off Topic Forum anyway.
Have you hit the Report button yet?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 07:59:16 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138650#msg-2138650 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138650#msg-2138650 mowogman Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 07:56:04 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138632#msg-2138632 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138632#msg-2138632 auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 07:34:44 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138628#msg-2138628 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138628#msg-2138628 JackMG Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 07:30:16 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138574#msg-2138574 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138574#msg-2138574
The union leaders were so intransigent they couldn't see the country was awash with coal on the surface.Coal imported from South Africa/Poland cheaper than we could produce.The National Coal Board were paying Mills in the area to convert to coal! we had so much stockpiled.

No it was all about Power for them.

To this day there are still families broken apart from those days,Father against sons,Brother against Brother.Friend against Friend.

Scargill was the only one that couldn't lose! If the miners had won then he would have said "Miners united will never be defeated" But when they lost and the cuts came in he said "Well i told you so"

It was a shameful time for this Country.]]> peter d Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 05:45:55 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138565#msg-2138565 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138565#msg-2138565

These people didn't care about the workers! What they wanted was regime change and glory for them self's.]]> peter d Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 05:17:18 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138564#msg-2138564 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138564#msg-2138564 In reply to # 2138562 by peter d But practically all unions were socialists leaning towards would be communists.

These people didn't care about the workers!
Sorry, but those two sentences make no sense when used together.]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 05:14:48 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138562#msg-2138562 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138562#msg-2138562
At that time the Unions were so powerful,And the people at the top in the Unions not just the engineering unions,But practically all unions were socialists leaning towards would be communists.

These people didn't care about the workers! What they wanted was regime change and glory for them self's.

I worked at many company's where the unions were all powerful.I would say over 50% of workers wanted to work.But to go up against the unions would have been suicide for them!

Yes the Government had there part to play in the demise off the manufactures But the unions played there part to Oscar standards.

I lived through this time and it wasnt good.I have never trusted unions since.]]> peter d Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 05:07:03 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138553#msg-2138553 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138553#msg-2138553 magnette1 Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 04:35:38 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138552#msg-2138552 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138552#msg-2138552 In reply to # 2138538 by peter d
I couldn't believe what was happening there,So if anyone started putting nails in the coffin it was the Unions. If they would have worked as hard building cars as they did hammering nails, things might have gone differently!
From all that I have read about that company at that time This statement pretty much captures my thoughts:

"...the idea that it was all the unions' fault that British cars were rubbish is a nonsense. It took some really inept management, combined with a contemptuous attitude to manufacturing industry by the political elite, to reach the low point British industry got to in the sixties and seventies. It's worth remembering that there was far greater union power in German industry than in the UK and they still managed to turn out reliable cars".

The only reason unions get seriously involved or militant in an industry or at a factory is when they see or perceive a threat to the safety or security of their members, so trouble would have started first and THEN the unions would have stepped in, not the other way around.

Why would unions do anything to endanger the livelihood of their members? That is just nonsensical.]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 04:33:55 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138538#msg-2138538 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138538#msg-2138538 In reply to # 2138491 by AmishIndy

In reply to # 2138431 by racer76

In reply to # 2138402 by AmishIndy the only political debates that belong here are historiocal ones relevent to the cars during their manufacture. What policies led to the demise of the british auto industry for example.

Yeah? Management sucked the life out of the thing and blamed the workers (then rewrote history so that it is quoted forever more)... nothing changes so discussion is futile.

Oversimplification really. Margret Thatcher, Richard Nixon, Ralph Nader, OPEC, Anwar Sadat, and others all played a role in the distruction of BL. It wasnt just BL management it was also government policy and the management policies at other firms. There is lots of room for debate there. Specially over exactly which had the biggest influence. Discusion of history isnt futile if it helps us understand the present or better yet, the future.
Hmmm

I did some contract work at Longbridge around the time of Red Robbo the union leader.

I couldn't believe what was happening there,So if anyone started putting nails in the coffin it was the Unions. If they would have worked as hard building cars as they did hammering nails, things might have gone differently!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longbridge_plant]]> peter d Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 03:32:02 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138491#msg-2138491 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138491#msg-2138491 In reply to # 2138431 by racer76

In reply to # 2138402 by AmishIndy the only political debates that belong here are historiocal ones relevent to the cars during their manufacture. What policies led to the demise of the british auto industry for example.

Yeah? Management sucked the life out of the thing and blamed the workers (then rewrote history so that it is quoted forever more)... nothing changes so discussion is futile.
Oversimplification really. Margret Thatcher, Richard Nixon, Ralph Nader, OPEC, Anwar Sadat, and others all played a role in the distruction of BL. It wasnt just BL management it was also government policy and the management policies at other firms. There is lots of room for debate there. Specially over exactly which had the biggest influence. Discusion of history isnt futile if it helps us understand the present or better yet, the future.]]> AmishIndy Off Topic Forum Mon, 06 Aug 2012 00:24:20 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138431#msg-2138431 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138431#msg-2138431 In reply to # 2138402 by AmishIndy the only political debates that belong here are historiocal ones relevent to the cars during their manufacture. What policies led to the demise of the british auto industry for example.
Yeah? Management sucked the life out of the thing and blamed the workers (then rewrote history so that it is quoted forever more)... nothing changes so discussion is futile.]]> racer76 Off Topic Forum Sun, 05 Aug 2012 22:41:09 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138402#msg-2138402 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138402#msg-2138402 AmishIndy Off Topic Forum Sun, 05 Aug 2012 21:32:30 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138356#msg-2138356 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138356#msg-2138356 tbarker7815 Off Topic Forum Sun, 05 Aug 2012 20:32:15 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138290#msg-2138290 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138290#msg-2138290 TRIKER Off Topic Forum Sun, 05 Aug 2012 19:00:09 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138051#msg-2138051 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2138051#msg-2138051 www.offtopicpolitics.com]]> auctionwatch Off Topic Forum Sun, 05 Aug 2012 13:30:45 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2137789#msg-2137789 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2137789#msg-2137789 melbaver Off Topic Forum Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:20:57 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2137787#msg-2137787 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2137787#msg-2137787
Probably never open for business again.]]> Simon Austin Off Topic Forum Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:13:08 -0500 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2137763#msg-2137763 http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?47,2137763,2137763#msg-2137763
James]]> James74 Off Topic Forum Sat, 04 Aug 2012 21:49:51 -0500